There are 17 messages totalling 700 lines in this issue. Topics of the day: 1. Spoiler space needed?? Was: Re: OT: Do not go gently.... 2. No spoiler space needed..... 3. OT: Do not go gently.... (4) 4. ATTN: All Fan Fic writers (11) ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Thu, 12 Jul 2001 21:00:15 +0200 From: Marina Bailey <fdd-tmar@netactive.co.za> Subject: Spoiler space needed?? Was: Re: OT: Do not go gently.... >> Saw it, didn't do anything for me. >I knew there had to be one. If this is related to Buffy, could you please put spoiler space in the posts. Some of us haven't seen those episodes yet. - Marina. \\ "I can read a story where Jim shows his affection ||>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> // // with words, and one where he'd rather build a || R I C H I E >> \\ \\ bookshelf, and one where he secretly likes to ||>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> // // wear frilly underwear." - Livia || \\ \\==fdd-tmar@netactive.co.za==Chief Flag Waver and Defender of Richie==// "We're members of Clan Denial, not the Borg." - Misha ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 12 Jul 2001 20:02:39 +0100 From: "John Mosby (B)" <a.j.mosby@btinternet.com> Subject: No spoiler space needed..... ...we were dscussing merits of show, not specifics. Just said I thought one partic ep of recent run was best thing I'd seen in years, but didn't give away plot. John ----- Original Message ----- From: "Marina Bailey" <fdd-tmar@netactive.co.za> To: <HIGHLA-L@LISTS.PSU.EDU> Sent: Thursday, July 12, 2001 8:00 PM Subject: [HL] Spoiler space needed?? Was: Re: OT: Do not go gently.... > >> Saw it, didn't do anything for me. > >I knew there had to be one. > > If this is related to Buffy, could you please put spoiler > space in the posts. Some of us haven't seen those episodes > yet. > > - Marina. > > \\ "I can read a story where Jim shows his affection ||>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> // > // with words, and one where he'd rather build a || R I C H I E >> \\ > \\ bookshelf, and one where he secretly likes to ||>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> // > // wear frilly underwear." - Livia || \\ > \\==fdd-tmar@netactive.co.za==Chief Flag Waver and Defender of Richie==// > > "We're members of Clan Denial, not the Borg." - Misha ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 12 Jul 2001 15:05:30 EDT From: Dotiran@aol.com Subject: Re: OT: Do not go gently.... <<Saw it, didn't do anything for me. Jette LOL Yes, but you said the same thing about Adrian Paul, so I've *got* to worry about you. *vbeg* [not a Buffy fan, never see it, no opinion on the real subject of this thread ] ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 12 Jul 2001 20:26:57 +0100 From: Jette Goldie <jette@blueyonder.co.uk> Subject: Re: OT: Do not go gently.... Dotiran says: > <<Saw it, didn't do anything for me. > > Jette > > > LOL Yes, but you said the same thing about Adrian Paul, so I've *got* to worry about you. *vbeg* Phfft - gorgeous guys are ten a penny around here, especially at this time of year ;-) (pity we don't get the weather to let them show it all off properly <g>)(blue is the *in* colour for skin this week in Edinburgh - and it AIN'T woad!!) Jette Glory may be fleeting, but obscurity is forever! bosslady@scotlandmail.com http://www.jette.pwp.blueyonder.co.uk/fanfic.html ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 12 Jul 2001 15:33:02 EDT From: Dotiran@aol.com Subject: Re: OT: Do not go gently.... In a message dated 7/12/2001 2:27:09 PM US Eastern Standard Time, jette@blueyonder.co.uk writes: > (pity we don't get the weather to let them show it all off > properly <g>)(blue is the *in* colour for skin this week > in Edinburgh - and it AIN'T woad!!) > Thanks for the warning. Will pack a sweater and a coat. I leave for Inverness next Wednesday. Highlands here I come :) ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 12 Jul 2001 18:38:16 -0400 From: Trilby <trilby23@bellsouth.net> Subject: Re: ATTN: All Fan Fic writers John: > >A question though: if an actor encourages a fan-writer to continue, the > >writer will do so with added zeal. But if an actor asked the writer to stop, > >would that be honoured completely or would the writer of that particular > >fanfic simply continue but keep it low-key and away from the actor? Again, > >not a judgement, but a genuine question as to whether a fan-fic writer would > >feel as obligated? Marina <snip> > Which prompted me to rethink my earlier opinion. Actually, I don't > think I would care what the actor thought about slash. I mean, if > I read somewhere that, say, Adrian hated slash, I would go right > on reading and writing it without a care in the world. If he > asked me at a con or something to desist writing it, I'd just > keep it low-key, I think. But, as I said in about a dozen <g> > previous posts, I'd never show it to him in the first place, and > hopefully he'd have more tact than to bring it up first. OK, this brings me to repeat a question I asked a while ago on another list (the only answer I got, Marina, was essentially "don't know and don't care" *G*). I've heard (third-hand, maybe even fourth- or fifth-hand, so DON'T anyone go repeating this as gospel) that Peter Wingfield is amused and entertained by fanfic, including slash, and looks on it quite benevolently. I heard from the same source (who, I repeat, heard it from someone else) that Adrian Paul, on the other hand, hates and despises ALL fanfic with a passion - gen, het, slash, and everything in between. I'm curious to know if this is true, and if it is, curious to know how the subject came up with AP in the first place. I also admit to wondering why he'd hate it so much (intellectual ownership of the character? Or what?), but I doubt that there's any information about that. Idle speculation, sure. Actual knowledge of his reasons? Doubtful. ------------ Trilby "Who's the African-American professional investigator who has safe, consensual sex with strong, independent women who work for equal pay? Shaft." - Steve 2000 ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 12 Jul 2001 18:55:53 -0400 From: jjswbt@earthlink.net Subject: Re: ATTN: All Fan Fic writers John asked: >>A question though: if an actor encourages a fan-writer to continue, the >>writer will do so with added zeal. But if an actor asked the writer to >stop,would that be honoured completely or would the writer of that particular >>fanfic simply continue but keep it low-key and away from the actor? >Again,not a judgement, but a genuine question as to whether a fan-fic writer >would feel as obligated? Marina answers: > Actually, I don't >think I would care what the actor thought about slash. I mean, if >I read somewhere that, say, Adrian hated slash, I would go right >on reading and writing it without a care in the world. If he >asked me at a con or something to desist writing it, I'd just >keep it low-key, I think. But, as I said in about a dozen <g> >previous posts, I'd never show it to him in the first place, and >hopefully he'd have more tact than to bring it up first. This is a fascinating attitude. I'm not saying you're "wrong"..I'm just bemused <g> .: ::Playing Devil's Advocate:::: You are very open in admitting that fanfic is illegal (rightly or wrongly). You stress that fanfic should be kept under the radar so as not to force TPTB to deal with your illegal activities - apparently operating under the "if they don't catch me, I'm not doing anything wrong" philosophy. You know that your activities offend some people..including some of the people who are written into your stories- and yet you would feel no need to cease and desist even if asked directly by one of those people. Your need to produce and read new stories apparently outweighs any other concern. I'm moved to ask whether this attitude applies to other activities as well? If everyone was stealing cars..and there was only a 1 in a 1000 chance that anyone would get caught..and you mostly returned the cars undamaged...would you join in and steal a car? You really enjoy driving and ...you don't want to have to drive the same old car all the time. What if the guy whose car was being stolen asked you to stop? If everyone is doing cocaine and there is almost no chance of getting caught and most of the time everyone does it without physical damage ..would you do cocaine too? You really like cocaine and once is never enough. What if the mother of a kid who died from an overdose asked you to stop? What if your own mother asked you to stop? What if everyone was posting doctored nude pictures of movie stars on their web sites....no one is getting arrested....some actors think it is funny....lots of people are offended...including some people who suddenly find nude pictures of themselves being posted even though they have never posed nude. Would you post some too? You really like looking at nude actors -even if unsanctioned ..and you don't want to have to stare at the same one all the time. Would you stop if asked by one of the people pictured? :::End Devil's Advocate ::: I don't think fanfic - gen or het or slash - is the end of the world. Mostly it's harmless unoffensive drivel unlikely to be confused with any sanctioned product. But..I can't imagine that I would continue to write it if asked directly to stop. I especially can't imagine writing and posting more if I was asked to stop by one of the actors who is being "used" to fuel my fantasies (whatever those fantasies might be). If I knew for a fact that AP hated the image of Duncan that I was helping to send out over the Net..I would stop..because ..well..he's a human being with feelings that deserve to be respected once known. If PW said a few years from now.."Hey, I've got a son who loves the Methos character and he's old enough to surf the Net...I don't want him finding all that slash fanfic .." I would probably take down any slash I had up. ..because I wouldn't want to be the one who "ruined" a kid's image of his Dad. I think once I knew the actor's feeling on the matter..it really wouldn't matter to me whether he ever saw my stuff or not.. I wouldn't continue. But then...that's just *me*. Wendy(I've been rewatching Season 4)( I should be rewatching Raven.)(Maybe later.) Fairy Killer jjswbt@earthlink.net http://home.earthlink.net/~jjswbt/index.html ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 12 Jul 2001 19:25:04 -0400 From: Trilby <trilby23@bellsouth.net> Subject: Re: ATTN: All Fan Fic writers Wendy wrote: > .: ::Playing Devil's Advocate:::: > > You are very open in admitting that fanfic is illegal (rightly or wrongly). You stress that fanfic should be kept under the radar so as not to force TPTB to deal with your illegal activities - apparently operating under the "if they don't catch me, I'm not doing anything wrong" philosophy. You know that your activities offend some people..including some of the people who are written into your stories- and yet you would feel no need to cease and desist even if asked directly by one of those people. Your need to produce and read new stories apparently outweighs any other concern. I think that all of us who write acknowledge know that it's illegal and, to some degree, immoral. But I see it, by and large, as a "victimless crime". I suppose there may be actors, writers, or some such out there who've been *materially* injured by fanfic, but I've never actually heard of it happening. As far as "not liking it" - don't read it. > I'm moved to ask whether this attitude applies to other activities as well? In my world, it often does. If I'm not harming myself or someone else, or decreasing someone's material gains, my guilt quotient is very low. An example: At work, we're required by law to take a one-hour lunch break, and if we don't, we can be fired. I work for the state, and the state won't allow itself to be put in the position of infringing on fair employment practices, so even if we WANT to work through lunch, we're not allowed to. Guess how many of us do it anyway? And if I only take 30 minutes for lunch, but sign out for an hour as required, I don't feel one bit guilty about signing in a half-hour early the next day. > If everyone was stealing cars..and there was only a 1 in a 1000 chance that anyone would get caught..and you mostly returned the cars undamaged...would you join in and steal a car? You really enjoy driving and ...you don't want to have to drive the same old car all the time. What if the guy whose car was being stolen asked you to stop? Stealing a car invariably will cause material harm to *someone*. Not getting caught isn't the issue. With fanfic, "not getting caught" is essentially just giving TPTB "plausible deniability" - if we don't wave a red cape at the bull, it will refrain from taking notice of us. Another example: I do drive over the speed limit as long as I'm careful and the traffic will allow it, and I think I won't get caught. I know it's illegal. I know it's to some degree immoral to knowingly break the law. I just don't happen to feel one bit guilty over it, because nobody's getting hurt. If I were to crash and (God forbid) injure another person and/or their car while I'm speeding, than I deserve whatever punishment is meted out to me, because I caused harm to come to another person. <snip of other examples> > :::End Devil's Advocate ::: > > I don't think fanfic - gen or het or slash - is the end of the world. Mostly it's harmless unoffensive drivel unlikely to be confused with any sanctioned product. But..I can't imagine that I would continue to write it if asked directly to stop. I especially can't imagine writing and posting more if I was asked to stop by one of the actors who is being "used" to fuel my fantasies (whatever those fantasies might be). If I knew for a fact that AP hated the image of Duncan that I was helping to send out over the Net..I would stop..because ..well..he's a human being with feelings that deserve to be respected once known. If PW said a few years from now.."Hey, I've got a son who loves the Methos character and he's old enough to surf the Net...I don't want him finding all that slash fanfic .." I would probably take down any slash I had up. ..because I wouldn't want to be the one who "ruined" a kid's image of his Dad. Hmmmm. Interesting thought. I don't know how I'd feel under those circumstances. Depending on the age, a child isn't necessarily responsible for his own actions (choosing what to read and what not to read) and may not be mature enough to deal with "Dad doing slash" or "Dad on the Web naked". > > I think once I knew the actor's feeling on the matter..it really wouldn't matter to me whether he ever saw my stuff or not.. I wouldn't continue. But then...that's just *me*. Hmmmm again. This may reflect poorly on my character, but I'd have to say, "He's a big boy, he knows the price of fame, and it's easy enough to avoid reading it if it offends him so much." ------------------- Trilby (who didn't quite realize how immoral she could be till she started writing about breaking the rules and not caring. *G*) ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 12 Jul 2001 20:03:53 EDT From: Ashton7@aol.com Subject: Re: ATTN: All Fan Fic writers In a message dated 7/12/01 7:24:58 PM Eastern Daylight Time, trilby23@bellsouth.net writes: << Hmmmm again. This may reflect poorly on my character, but I'd have to say, "He's a big boy, he knows the price of fame, and it's easy enough to avoid reading it if it offends him so much." >> Not only that, for the vast majority of cases, the actor/actress who played a role does not own the copyright on the universe or the character. They have nothing to say about who does or doesn't write derivative (or official, for that matter) fiction about a character they were once paid to play. In fact, actors are sometimes replaced in roles and the previous actor has nothing to say about that situation. Adrian Paul or whomever can say they dislike fan fiction until they are blue in the face but there's very little that they personally can do about fiction written revolving around fictional characters that they do not own the rights to themselves. Annie CWPack ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 12 Jul 2001 14:19:28 -1000 From: Geiger <geiger@maui.net> Subject: Re: OT: Do not go gently.... Jette (re: that particular ep of that other show)-- > Saw it, didn't do anything for me. Me either. Read the hoopla about The Body so re-watched--again, blech--seemed a relatively weak effort to me. I do like the series, but it has so many eps that easily outshine this one.... Nina geiger@maui.net ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 13 Jul 2001 01:22:16 +0100 From: "John Mosby (B)" <a.j.mosby@btinternet.com> Subject: Re: ATTN: All Fan Fic writers I think you misunderstood my question. Never suggested that the actors could LEGALLY force you to stop writing... at least not under the current example. My question was simply to ask whether a fanfic writer would feel that if an actor's nod of approval seems like an endorsement and a reason to carry on, whether a fanfic writer would feel MORALLY (not legally) obligated to abide by an actor's wish NOT to. ie: a postive actor reaction has been mentioned here as a valid/taciturn permission to carry on, but would you consider a negative actor reaction a reason to stop? If not, isn't that a double-standard? And, 'once yet more again', this isn't an anti-fanfic stance, I'm just intrigued by some of the reasoning I'm heaing in this thread. John From: <Ashton7@aol.com> To: <HIGHLA-L@LISTS.PSU.EDU> Sent: Friday, July 13, 2001 1:03 AM Subject: Re: [HL] ATTN: All Fan Fic writers > In a message dated 7/12/01 7:24:58 PM Eastern Daylight Time, > trilby23@bellsouth.net writes: > > << Hmmmm again. This may reflect poorly on my character, but I'd > have to say, "He's a big boy, he knows the price of fame, and it's > easy enough to avoid reading it if it offends him so much." >> > > Not only that, for the vast majority of cases, the actor/actress who played a > role does not own the copyright on the universe or the character. They have > nothing to say about who does or doesn't write derivative (or official, for > that matter) fiction about a character they were once paid to play. In fact, > actors are sometimes replaced in roles and the previous actor has nothing to > say about that situation. Adrian Paul or whomever can say they dislike fan > fiction until they are blue in the face but there's very little that they > personally can do about fiction written revolving around fictional characters > that they do not own the rights to themselves. > > Annie CWPack ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 12 Jul 2001 20:48:44 -0400 From: jjswbt@earthlink.net Subject: Re: ATTN: All Fan Fic writers Annie says: >Not only that, for the vast majority of cases, the actor/actress who >played a role does not own the copyright on the universe or the character. >They have nothing to say about who does or doesn't write derivative > (or official, for that matter) fiction about a character they were once >paid to play. In fact, actors are sometimes replaced in roles and > the previous actor has nothing to say about that situation. > Adrian Paul or whomever can say they dislike fan >fiction until they are blue in the face but there's very little that they >personally can do about fiction written revolving around fictional >characters that they do not own the rights to themselves. Of course. No one I'm aware of was arguing that the actor had an *legal* right to the character or what was done with (to?) it. AP doesn't own Duncan..PW doesn't own Methos..VP doesn't own Kronos. Actors can indeed be replaced on TPTB's whim and they usually have no say in what the character does while they are playing the part. My point was that, when an actor becomes closely associated with a particular character...I personally would feel weird writing fanfic that involved that character in situations that I knew *for a fact* made the actor uncomfortable. It has nothing to do with legalities..only sensibilities. I know that Peter is *not* Methos. I also know that when someone reads a fanfic about Methos..it is Peter they are imagining in the part. If Peter had said that he found Methos slash very disturbing..I would probably not write Methos slash...out of consideration for his feelings. OTOH, an actor's statement that he or she hates all fanfic of all types would probably bother me less..because such an objection doesn't strike me as "personal". Again..it has nothing to do with legalities or rights or ownership. Wendy(Not at all sure that being "famous" makes one fair game for anything anyone wants to throw at you.) Fairy Killer jjswbt@earthlink.net http://home.earthlink.net/~jjswbt/index.html ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 12 Jul 2001 14:52:33 -1000 From: Geiger <geiger@maui.net> Subject: Re: ATTN: All Fan Fic writers Marina (about AP's often-supposed distaste of fanfic/slash)-- > I'd never show it to him in the first place, and > hopefully he'd have more tact than to bring it up first. Are you just _dedicated_ to making me laugh out loud & scare the cats? You expect TACT from AP (or any TPTB offended by fanfic/slash), while you & yours blithely continue violating their rights.... Nina geiger@maui.net ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 12 Jul 2001 14:53:20 -1000 From: Geiger <geiger@maui.net> Subject: Re: ATTN: All Fan Fic writers Diana-- > But you didn't respond to Carmel's reminder about the > fanfic that is sanctioned and encouraged on the > actual, official HL site. Since it's on there - > doesn't this mean we are all more or less privy to his > feelings and thoughts on this topic? Oh, gosh, I am SOOOOOOO sorry that I slipped up & failed to respond to a single substantive issue in this topic. Must be catching, since Carrie, Marina, Carmel & YOU all failed to respond to most of the substantive points I raised against distributing fanfic. (Except for Marina's "fanfic's fun/you're mean" rebuttal, of course.) Let's see--I know nothing about this forum on the site that supposedly encourages fanfic. But, if you still want my opinion, OK. Do we have any reason to think Bill Panzer has a clue about it? I mean, as I understand these things, the official website is contracted out much like the HL Store. While I'm all for holding DPP responsible for everything from crappy merchandising practices to canon goofs in HL:EG, I really doubt BP is personally aware of the various spiels (ranging from insanely inaccurate to fraudulent) the HL: Store clerks use, for instance. So, I also doubt BP hand-crafted the website or is even aware of all its aspects. Very possibly, he's clueless about the existence of this particular forum (which is one of many, I believe). So, relying on it to soothe one's conscience as a fanfic writer seems pretty lame, to me. Saying it makes you privy to BP's thoughts & feelings about something as loaded as fanfic/slash is just naive. But, assuming that TPTB DID knowingly set up this fanfic forum, it strikes me as borderline brilliant (which is another reason I doubt it was intentional....). What better way to keep an eye on fanfic writers, in the "keep your enemies closer" tradition? And, though I don't know the terms of this particular site, many times posting to a forum automatically transfers ownership rights in the material posted to the forum owner. So--DPP gets back what the fanfic writers took--w/ interest. Diabolical, really.... Nina geiger@maui.net ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 12 Jul 2001 15:07:11 -1000 From: Geiger <geiger@maui.net> Subject: Re: ATTN: All Fan Fic writers Carmel-- > and I don't recall that there is any list rule about not being able to > participate if you haven't participated early on???? But, the point is--you STILL aren't participating. Your slinging sarcasm around until we're all hip deep in it is no substitute for actually discussing the issue. I'm a fan of sarcasm & understand its utility, but it cannot hide the fact that you & others here have put forth no reasoned defense for distributing fanfic. It's just something you want to do & so will do, no matter what. While fanfic is a trivial issue compared to almost anything else, the _mindset_ behind what you & others have said here is frightening, should it extend beyond the trivial. And, why shouldn't it? Nina geiger@maui.net ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 12 Jul 2001 21:18:26 -0400 From: "Carrie V. Key" <reeana1@home.com> Subject: Re: ATTN: All Fan Fic writers ----- Original Message ----- From: Geiger <geiger@maui.net> > Diana-- > > But you didn't respond to Carmel's reminder about the > > fanfic that is sanctioned and encouraged on the > > actual, official HL site. Since it's on there - > > doesn't this mean we are all more or less privy to his > > feelings and thoughts on this topic? > > Oh, gosh, I am SOOOOOOO sorry that I slipped up & failed to respond to a > single substantive issue in this topic. Must be catching, since Carrie, > Marina, Carmel & YOU all failed to respond to most of the substantive points > I raised against distributing fanfic. (Except for Marina's "fanfic's > fun/you're mean" rebuttal, of course.) > A bunch of the times I saw no point in responding since someone else usually beat me to it and stated what I was gonna say. We get alimited number of posts here per day and I don't want to use them up needlessly. As a far as slash is concerned IMO, I don't care about it either way. I've read some great slash fics and I've read some down right disturbing ones. It's just like any other fan fic to me. Now if it disturbs (like other fics as well) the actor, commom curtsey should be taken to limit it on the charater. If TPTB say it's a no-no (and not just slash either) then there's no common curtesy about it. It better be taken down and not distributed. And I never posted the original post to turn it into one huge legal discussion and people in one corner saying it's totally illegal and everyone who is doing it should stop and others in that corner saying it's 100% legal and everyone should be doing it. But the fact is Fan fic has existed in one form or another for a very long time. Some accept it, and some don't. It is also not entirely legal nor is it entirely illegal. Very good points have been made on both sides, and although I am a supporter of Fan fic, I can see *some* points-of-view from the non-supporters. As is the case in any and everything out there, there are those who can ruin for others and give everyone a bad name. We've ssen our fair share of that (particulary over the last year with Lance). I am a writer of Fan Fiction. I've written a few HL ones. I've written others that deal with movies, real people, even RPGs. I ama big fan of giving credit where it is due, hence my support for disclaimers. Do I feel dirty when I write these stories? No. I've always been into writing extra episodes for my favorite TV shows (or cartoons) and maybe take the characters from a movie I just saw and bring them life once again. I've also taken a few of favorite musicians or music groups and put them into various situations. If I'm breaking any laws, I'm sorry. I honestly don't believe I am. > But, assuming that TPTB DID knowingly set up this fanfic forum, it strikes > me as borderline brilliant (which is another reason I doubt it was > intentional....). What better way to keep an eye on fanfic writers, in the > "keep your enemies closer" tradition? And, though I don't know the terms of > this particular site, many times posting to a forum automatically transfers > ownership rights in the material posted to the forum owner. So--DPP gets > back what the fanfic writers took--w/ interest. Diabolical, really.... Honestly I don't see it as keeping your enemies close. I see it as more of a positive reaction to a growing community. Hey, for all we know, they may be trying to search out some new writers for possible new shows or even books. I know of several people that have gotten jobs through fan fic writing. For thos eof you out there that are fans of the Palladium RPGs and more respectively RIFTS, the book Seige at Tolkien had it's lovely start as a fan fic:). Maryann and Kevin Siembieda and a few others in th ePalldium world caught wind of it and snacthed it up and published it. Hell, I'd love it if something like that happened to me! But do I sit here and disillusion mysef that it will? No. Are there those there who do? I have no doubt. > While fanfic is a trivial issue compared to almost anything else, the > _mindset_ behind what you & others have said here is frightening, should it > extend beyond the trivial. And, why shouldn't it? What exactly have we said that has been so frieghtening? For the most part I agree with Marina, but not on everything she has said. Same with John, Annie and everyone else that has posted here. I just don't see what is so friegtening about it. --- Carrie Key reeana1@home.com vatazes@home.com http://members.home.net/reeana1/my_domain.htm http://members.home.net/vatazes/welcome.htm http://www.angelfire.com/celeb2/hornygurlz/index.htm LadyReeana, Ana Vatazes, Javina Jinn, PWFC, OFEB, QJEB, Clan of the Eternally Clueless, Proud Owner of 'Oasis Bathing Ardeth' Clone #1 "Tas! You Doorknob!" Flint Fireforge, Dragonlance "I came, I saw, I broke a hip." Johnny Bravo ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 12 Jul 2001 18:37:02 -0700 From: Lynn <lloschin@sprynet.com> Subject: Re: ATTN: All Fan Fic writers From: "Geiger" <geiger@MAUI.NET> >So, I also doubt BP > hand-crafted the website or is even aware of all its aspects. Very > possibly, he's clueless about the existence of this particular forum (which > is one of many, I believe). Bill is definitely aware of the web boards and what's said on them. Those boards aren't there out of altrusism... they are a marketing tool for DPP. Lynn ------------------------------ End of HIGHLA-L Digest - 12 Jul 2001 (#2001-193) ************************************************