HIGHLA-L Digest - 11 Aug 2006 to 12 Aug 2006 (#2006-129)

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      There are 2 messages totalling 134 lines in this issue.
      
      Topics of the day:
      
        1. Living UnGracefully, Until Someone Catches Up With Him (2)
      
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      Date:    Sat, 12 Aug 2006 11:40:41 -0700
      From:    Elaine Nicol <elainen@inguz.co.uk>
      Subject: Re: Living UnGracefully, Until Someone Catches Up With Him
      
      Judy wrote:
      >>Only that no other religion seems to get the same pot shots as
      Christians. 
      That was part of the point Christians were making in the discussion
      about 
      "Book of Daniel". Christians get made fun of an awful lot in our
      society. 
      Why don't we make fun of Islam? Buddhism? Judaism??
      
      Only if you ask them they will tell you that their religion is the one
      that gets the abuse.    Just like racism, everyone thinks their group is
      the one everyone is getting at.
      
      >>As a devout Christian, I don't feel persecuted, but I do get tired of
      all 
      the snarky comments about Christians. And, I feel obliged to point out
      that 
      there are various "flavors" of Christianity, and we don't all have the
      same 
      beliefs, and shouldn't necessarily be all lumped together.<<
      
      Again something everyone feels about their own religion, race, or
      whatever group they put themselves into.
      
      >>Also, as a devout Christian, I find the casual use of the name of the
      God 
      that I worship to be offensive, although I rarely post about it. I'm
      fairly 
      certain that if someone posted something using racial slurs or epithets,
      
      they'd be jumped on by many people with lots of feet. Why is it that we
      seem 
      to feel it's OK to offend someone who is religious, but it's not OK to 
      offend someone who may have a different skin color or belong to a
      particular 
      ethic group. Personally, I find the comments I consider blasphemous more
      
      painful than racial slurs. No, I do not think racial slurs are
      acceptable, 
      but neither are comments that religious people find blasphemous.<<
      
      This is a very thorny problem - I am willing to bet that you have used
      the name of someone's god in the same way, maybe without realising it.
      It is not okay to deliberately offend anyone, and that can be done
      without using obvious words like God or Jesus or anything else.   And
      there is the point it is about the intention behind what is said that
      makes it truly offensive.
      
      Blasphemy is an altogether more complex thing.   Most religious beliefs
      of one religion make it blasphemous to other religion so therefore by
      it's very existence it is a blasphemy.   That is why there should be no
      blasphemy law.
      
      Remember at one time people who thought the earth was not the centre of
      the universe was considered blasphemous.
      
      Respect for each other is what is needed and of course a reminder that
      it cuts both ways, and sometimes you have to allow others to say and do
      things you do not like, so that you may have that right too.
      
      The only reason I would every fight for religion is for the freedom of
      all to worship in whatever way they please.  
      
      Elaine 
      
      ------------------------------
      
      Date:    Sat, 12 Aug 2006 11:07:40 -1000
      From:    Nina Davis <macwestie@hawaii.rr.com>
      Subject: Re: Living UnGracefully, Until Someone Catches Up With Him
      
      John--
      
      > Nina, ever the diplomat-in-training, makes the exact opposite point she 
      > intends to (maybe?) by simply using the generic generalisation 'they' and 
      > therefore inferring all Christians behave the same way and only feel 
      > they're persecuted/generalised.
      
      Nope.  My "they" clearly referred to the subset of Christians Wendy was 
      talking about--those Christians (whoever & however many they may be) who say 
      they are being persecuted in America today.   It's absurd, as well as 
      demeaning of those groups--religious & otherwise--who really DO face that 
      problem.
      
      
      > In future, I don't think that's an unreasonable a request - to not 
      > deliberately use religious language that we know offends anyone here.
      
      Well, then you go right ahead w/ that.  And I suspect the rest of us will do 
      what we find to be reasonable.  And getting all lathered up over a joking 
      reference to a ridiculous post demonstrates a tragic lack of both 
      perspective & sense of humor.
      
      
      >Me? I think most religions worth their weight in faith are funny and sturdy 
      >enough to face any kind of debate. Doesn't mean I deliberately throw rocks.
      
      I bet that's just because you throw like a girl.
      
      
      me before--
      >It's usually simple ignominy.  When they feel embarrassed, they cry foul. 
      >It's more of a distraction technique, really.  Being asked to defend your 
      >religious doctrine for discussion purposes is hardly akin to losing your 
      >life if caught praying.
      
      Judy--
      >Well, not all Christians react this way.
      
      Of course not.  And no one said all Christians did.  But, it does happen 
      here, & Rottie's recent knee-jerk (& rather comically off-the-mark) reaction 
      is, sadly, typical.
      
      
      Rottie--
      >the  slew of  defamatory and vitriolic insults that followed my  comment
      
      See?
      
      Nina (just 3 more boxes to unpack)
      macwestie@hawaii.rr.com
      
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      End of HIGHLA-L Digest - 11 Aug 2006 to 12 Aug 2006 (#2006-129)
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