HIGHLA-L Digest - 17 Mar 2006 to 18 Mar 2006 - Special issue (#2006-61)

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      There are 18 messages totalling 802 lines in this issue.
      
      Topics in this special issue:
      
        1. Highlander DVD sets - which to get? (9)
        2. HLWW, Carmel and Cons... (3)
        3. Buffy, slash, non-HL  topics ( was RE: Highlander DVD sets - which to
           get?) (6)
      
      ----------------------------------------------------------------------
      
      Date:    Fri, 17 Mar 2006 21:08:31 -0600
      From:    Kamil <kamilaa@gmail.com>
      Subject: Re: Highlander DVD sets - which to get?
      
      On 3/17/06, Wendy <Immortals_Incorporated@cox.net> wrote:
      > Tarryn asks:
      
      > > I saw my first 'Smallville episode
      > > recently, simply because it had PW in it & while I won't be
      > > watching again, I can see where the C/L stuff comes from)
      >
      > Tell me that C/L doesn't mean Chloe/Lana <G> .
      
      I'm going to assume she's referring to Clark/Lex, which, in the new
      fannish style (that I despise, but fandom at large refuses to care
      what I think) is more commonly referred to as Clex. Chloe/Lana would
      be Chlana.
      
      Etc, etc., ad naseum. Blame the idiots who liked Spike and Buffy
      together - they started the madness with "Spuffy" (which is just as
      stupid as it sounds) and it unfortunately caught on. *stab*
      
      Fortunately I've never seen anyone try it with the Highlander pairings
      - probably because there's just no good way to do so. Thank God.
      
      I did have an LJ icon for a while though that was a picture of Kirk
      and Spock with the text : Kock, it's why we have slash. <eg> But
      that's the extent of the cute. At least so far as I'm concerned.
      
      Methan? Dunos? Nope. It's just not going to work. Halleujah.
      --
      Kamil
      Spanky: "You pathetic little fairy."
      Angel: "Hey! I'm not little!"
      "Conviction" Angel the Series
      *sigh* I miss my dead gay show.
      
      ------------------------------
      
      Date:    Fri, 17 Mar 2006 22:17:58 -0500
      From:    kageorge <kageorge1@verizon.net>
      Subject: Re: Highlander DVD sets - which to get?
      
      Kamil wrote:
      
      >Methan? Dunos? Nope. It's just not going to work. Halleujah.
      >  
      >
      Crap, now my mind won't stop it...
      
      DunMeth
      MethCan (sounds like an hispanic with a lisp)
      Thuncan
      MacMeth (Out, out, damned Scot!!)
      
      (Gah! Somebody shoot me!)
      
      MacG
      
      ------------------------------
      
      Date:    Fri, 17 Mar 2006 17:31:17 -1000
      From:    MacWestie <mac.westie@verizon.net>
      Subject: Re: HLWW, Carmel and Cons...
      
      kageorge--
      >  I am just as capable of error as any other member of the human race.
      
      Oh, you may well be selling yourself short there.
      
      
      > My main problem isn't your view that good HL is preferred to bad HL. 
      > That's a view shared by almost everyone
      
      No, I really don't think that's the case.  Or, did I miss, in all the con 
      postings & blogs, etc., of folks attending at Leeds, where every single fan 
      there politely but firmly asked every single GOH some variation of  this 
      basic question--
      "Considering I've been a devoted HL fan since God was a boy, suffered 
      through the sorry likes of Zeist, HL:TS season 6 & HL: The Raven, bought 
      unspeakably tacky stuff from HL: The Store (only half of which was ever 
      delivered), listened in quiet horror to big talk of things like HL: The 
      Opera, &--finally--got my hopes up over the much-touted "gift to the fans" 
      only to have Endgame turn out to be a continuity-nightmare & 
      rollercoaster-editing disaster, exactly HOW will The Source be different & 
      WHY should anyone trust anything coming from this once-great franchise ever 
      again?"
      
      Did anyone even try to get _that_ question answered?
      
      No?  Then, _good_ Highlander really isn't preferred & any HL at all will do 
      just fine.
      
      Nina (blech)
      mac.westie@verizon.net
      
      ------------------------------
      
      Date:    Fri, 17 Mar 2006 21:48:13 -0600
      From:    Kamil <kamilaa@gmail.com>
      Subject: Re: Highlander DVD sets - which to get?
      
      On 3/17/06, kageorge <kageorge1@verizon.net> wrote:
      > Kamil wrote:
      >
      > >Methan? Dunos? Nope. It's just not going to work. Halleujah.
      > >
      > >
      > Crap, now my mind won't stop it...
      >
      > DunMeth
      > MethCan (sounds like an hispanic with a lisp)
      > Thuncan
      > MacMeth (Out, out, damned Scot!!)
      >
      > (Gah! Somebody shoot me!)
      >
      > MacG
      
      *snerk* Also? *bang* <g>
      --
      Kamil
      Spike: "Because Angel and I have never been intimate . . . well,
      except for that one . . . "
      "Power Play" Angel the Series
      *sigh* I miss my dead gay show.
      
      ------------------------------
      
      Date:    Fri, 17 Mar 2006 23:21:34 -0500
      From:    Wendy <Immortals_Incorporated@cox.net>
      Subject: Re: Highlander DVD sets - which to get?
      
       Kamil says:
      > Etc, etc., ad naseum. Blame the idiots who liked Spike and 
      > Buffy together - they started the madness with "Spuffy" 
      
      Really? I've never seen that. That's just...awful.
      
      > Fortunately I've never seen anyone try it with the Highlander pairings
      > - probably because there's just no good way to do so. Thank God.
      
      Jochie? ( a girl)
      
      Dunthos?  ( a breathe mint)
      
      Methcan?  ( an illicit drug)
      
      Dunchie? (a snack food)
      
      Richos? ( an  SUV)
      
      What an incredibly stupid concept.
      
      Wendy( Slash is bad enough <eg> without ridiculous sounding names.)
      
      Immortals Inc.
      immortals_incorporated@cox.net
      "Weasels for Eternity" 
      
      ------------------------------
      
      Date:    Sat, 18 Mar 2006 07:56:38 +0200
      From:    TMar <tmar@polka.co.za>
      Subject: Re: HLWW, Carmel and Cons...
      
      kageorge wrote:
      
       >It seems that, whether they are HL cons organized by Carmel under
       >the auspices of HLWW or John's publications or simply people who are
       >(in someone's opinion) naively enthusiastic about HL in general, there is
       >this irrisistable drive to to say something sarcastically nasty, 
      including
       >negative implications (or inferences) about their motives, their 
      intelligence,
       >etc.
      
      I snipped a bit; hope that's enough to give the context.
      
      Anyway... I think that this kind of thing (getting jaded and making fun of
      those who aren't) is kind of a natural way for things to go. I mean, it's
      been more than ten years since HL started. The bloom is WAY, way
      off the rose by now.
      
      Fandoms (and having belonged to a LOT of different fandoms in my
      time, I have witnessed this more than once) eventually do become
      weird and different and not what they were (except Starman fandom,
      for some reason, which is pretty small anyway - yes, I know no one
      remembers Starman, sod off, Nina).
      
      Before the advent of TNG, Star Trek fandom was busily reiterating every
      episode, then alternate universing (is that a verb?) everything, then 
      slashing
      everyone, etc. But because this took place over a period of (hm... 16?)
      years, it didn't seem to startling and shocking. And these days you can no
      longer find fans who are enthused about TOS on its own. There's always
      a rider of some sort attached - how TOS relates to TNG or Enterprise, or
      whatever. And that's fine. But I still yearn to be enthusiastic over TOS,
      which I also think is valid.
      
      And it's getting like that here. We've dissected every episode of HL. We've
      watched the movies. We've discussed the actors, directors, SFX people, etc.
      We've spoken about cons, fanfic, the HL store, you name it. And some of
      us ARE jaded and people who are still enthusiastic DO seem naive. And
      that's the way of things (the way of the Force - oops). And because we get
      so little "new" HL, there's little to distract us from our 
      self-referential (you
      could even say incestuous - down, Wendy) posting on the list.
      
      It's not that there's anything WRONG with it - I think it's natural for 
      it to
      happen - but I can see how people who *aren't* jaded must see us with
      our insult-hurling and in-fighting. It's not pretty. But it's also 
      inevitable.
      
      - Marina.
      
      \\ "I'm like every other kid in America. We all ||>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> //
      //  wanna be astronauts... 'to boldly go where  || R I C H I E >> \\
      \\  no man has gone before'."  - Matt Sikes to  ||>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> //
      //   Cathy Frankel; Green Eyes (Alien Nation)   ||````````````````\\
      \\===============tmar@polka.co.za===============||,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,//
      //=============Chief Flag Waver and Defender of Richie============\\
      
      "Nothing in the world is the way it ought to be. It's harsh and 
      it's cruel, but that's why there's us ... We live as though the 
      world were how it should be, to show it what it can be." - Angel
      
      ------------------------------
      
      Date:    Sat, 18 Mar 2006 01:35:01 -0600
      From:    Kamil <kamilaa@gmail.com>
      Subject: Re: Highlander DVD sets - which to get?
      
      Wendy( Slash is bad enough <eg> without ridiculous sounding names.)
      
      Wendy? Bite me. <g>
      
      Also, as I believe I mentioned, the nimrods who love Buffy and Spike
      together are the ones who started this insanity, and Buffy and Spike,
      the last time I checked, were a het couple.
      
      Severely twisted, warped, no good can come from it, abusive,
      co-dependent out the ying-yang, het, but het nonetheless.
      
      --
      Kamil (she'd be far better off with Faith)(and it's wayyyyy
      hotter)(Spike is icky)(yes, I said icky)(although the last season of
      Angel redeemed him as a character somewhat)(it was delightful to not
      have him bleating after Buffy 24/7)(and not once did I hear that
      awful, "But he has a soooouuul now.")(did I mention she'd be better
      off with Faith?)
      Crassus: Do you consider the eating of oysters to be moral and the
      eating of snails to be immoral?
      Antoninus: No, master.
      Crassus: Of course not. It is all a matter of taste, isn't it?
      Antoninus: Yes, master.
      Crassus: And taste is not the same as appetite, and therefore not a
      question of morals.
      Antoninus: It could be argued so, master.
      Crassus: My robe, Antoninus. My taste includes . . . both snails and oysters.
             Spartacus
      
      ------------------------------
      
      Date:    Sat, 18 Mar 2006 10:56:25 +0200
      From:    TMar <tmar@polka.co.za>
      Subject: Re: Highlander DVD sets - which to get?
      
       >Also, as I believe I mentioned, the nimrods who love Buffy and Spike
       >together are the ones who started this insanity, and Buffy and Spike,
       >the last time I checked, were a het couple.
      
      Actually, wasn't that insanity started by the press? When they would put
      celebrities' names together, like Ben Affleck and J.Lo became "Bennifer"
      and stuff. Pardon me while I barf.
      
       >Severely twisted, warped, no good can come from it, abusive,
       >co-dependent out the ying-yang, het, but het nonetheless.
      
      I liked Buffy and Spike. I know, I'm weird. He was better for her than
      Angel, who couldn't even boink her! At least with Spike she got something
      out of it. :)
      
       >(she'd be far better off with Faith)(and it's wayyyyy hotter)
      
      I'd prefer Angel and Faith. She wouldn't put up with his whining about his
      soul, and she wouldn't whine about the burden of Slayerness.
      
      Faith rules! :)
      
      - Marina. (What has this to do with HL?) (Who cares?)
      
      \\ "I'm like every other kid in America. We all ||>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> //
      //  wanna be astronauts... 'to boldly go where  || R I C H I E >> \\
      \\  no man has gone before'."  - Matt Sikes to  ||>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> //
      //   Cathy Frankel; Green Eyes (Alien Nation)   ||````````````````\\
      \\===============tmar@polka.co.za===============||,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,//
      //=============Chief Flag Waver and Defender of Richie============\\
      
      "Nothing in the world is the way it ought to be. It's harsh and 
      it's cruel, but that's why there's us ... We live as though the 
      world were how it should be, to show it what it can be." - Angel
      
      ------------------------------
      
      Date:    Sat, 18 Mar 2006 05:47:36 -0600
      From:    Kamil <kamilaa@gmail.com>
      Subject: Re: Highlander DVD sets - which to get?
      
      > Actually, wasn't that insanity started by the press? When they would put
      > celebrities' names together, like Ben Affleck and J.Lo became "Bennifer" and stuff. Pardon me while I barf.
      
      The concept, yeah. The decision to bring it on into fandom, where it
      had no place being? That was started with the Spuffs. *stab*
      >
      
      > I liked Buffy and Spike. I know, I'm weird. He was better for her than
      > Angel, who couldn't even boink her! At least with Spike she got something> out of it. :)
      
      Yeah, but that something didn't always strike me as being in her
      actual best interests. And I had world's and world's of pity for
      season six Buffy and got very cranky with anyone who, in my opinion,
      made her life more difficult or painful than it already was. And I was
      with Spike all the way until they started sleeping together and he
      promptly lost his mind.
      
      What especially pissed me off was the way Spike swore up and down that
      he loved her. Fine. Then leave. For the very same reasons Angel did,
      because they're all still true.
      
      And yet did he leave? No. /issues> <g>
      
      
      > I'd prefer Angel and Faith.
      
      *pant*  <g> Moving on past my kink I prefer Faith with either Gunn or
      Wesley, and Wes/Faith is still something of kink!fic for me. I really
      believe she and Gunn would be great together, and holy GOD, but are
      they teh hott together. *pantpant*
      
      Yahtzee's Gunn/Faith story is amazing. She hits every single
      character's voice pitch-perfect (and she uses the entire cast; her
      Connor is *amazingly* on) and it's something you can easily believe
      could have happened if just a couple of things had gone a slightly
      different way.
      
      > Faith rules! :)
      
      She does indeed. She needs to run across Duncan somewhere. And then
      someone needs to write it down and tell me all about it. In vivid
      detail.<eg>
      --
      Kamil
      Gunn: "Name's Gunn. Charles Gunn."
      Faith: "I hear you're quite the fighter, Chuck."
      Gunn: "I hold my own."
      Faith: "That's a shame."
      *sigh* I miss my dead gay show.
      
      ------------------------------
      
      Date:    Sat, 18 Mar 2006 08:35:03 -0500
      From:    kageorge <kageorge1@verizon.net>
      Subject: Re: Highlander DVD sets - which to get?
      
      Kamil wrote:
      
      >On 3/17/06, kageorge <kageorge1@verizon.net> wrote:
      >  
      >
      >>Kamil wrote:
      >>
      >>    
      >>
      >>>Methan? Dunos? Nope. It's just not going to work. Halleujah.
      >>>
      >>>
      >>>      
      >>>
      >>Crap, now my mind won't stop it...
      >>
      >>DunMeth
      >>MethCan (sounds like an hispanic with a lisp)
      >>Thuncan
      >>MacMeth (Out, out, damned Scot!!)
      >>
      >>(Gah! Somebody shoot me!)
      >>
      >>MacG
      >>    
      >>
      >
      >*snerk* Also? *bang* <g>
      >  
      >
      Thank you!  I knew I'd find an eager volunteer for that task. <g>
      
      MacG
      
      ------------------------------
      
      Date:    Sat, 18 Mar 2006 09:47:44 -0500
      From:    Wendy <Immortals_Incorporated@cox.net>
      Subject: Buffy, slash, non-HL  topics ( was RE: Highlander DVD sets - which to get?)
      
      Me:
      >( Slash is bad enough <eg> without ridiculous sounding names.)
      
      Kamil:
      > Wendy? Bite me. <g>
      
      No, because you might enjoy it <EFG>
      
      > Also, as I believe I mentioned, the nimrods who love Buffy 
      > and Spike together are the ones who started this insanity, 
      > and Buffy and Spike, the last time I checked, were a het couple.
      
      True. I take it back. (This is my week for admitting fault.)(Bring up
      your grievances now while you have the chance!) Strike comment about
      stupid slash fans. Make it stupid fans. Period. 
      
      > (she'd be far better off with Faith)(and it's wayyyyy 
      > hotter)
      
      I *hated* Faith. Not fond of the actress and really hated the character.
      Maybe if we had seen more of her early days I might have had sympathy.
      As it was, I just wanted her to die. Buffy died...why couldn't Faith
      die?
      
      >(Spike is icky)(yes, I said icky)(although the last 
      > season of Angel redeemed him as a character somewhat)(it was 
      > delightful to not have him bleating after Buffy 24/7)(and not 
      > once did I hear that awful, "But he has a soooouuul 
      > now.")
      
      I liked Spike. The whole series (post-season one) was about Spike. It
      was never really about Buffy. Buffy had almost zero growth for the
      entire run. She was always just...Buffy. I sympathized with her
      predicament. I thought her "friends" treated her like shit on occasion.
      But, start to finish, she was the Chosen One. She took her position
      seriously, rebelled remarkably little for a teenager (more than past
      Slayers but still...) she loved, she lived, she died, she pined for
      Angel, she saved the world a lot. Angel was an angsty wuss from start to
      finish. His "curse" kept him in line - without his soul he was a
      monster.  It is Spike who grew and changed and became a better "man".
      >From Sid Vicious wannabe terrorizing Back-to-School night to sacrificing
      myself to save the world is a journey...and a journey he made without
      losing that nice sarcastic edge he started out with. Even before he had
      a soul, Spike was less of a monster than most of the other monsters. 
      
      On Spike boinking Buffy:
      >Yeah, but that something didn't always strike me as being in her actual
      best
      > interests. And I had world's and world's of pity for season six Buffy 
      >and got very cranky with anyone who, in my opinion, made her life 
      >more difficult or painful than it already was. And I was with Spike
      > all the way until they started sleeping together and he promptly
      > lost his mind.
      
      Well, he *was* a vampire <eg> Can't expect total altruism there, can
      you? And ...would it have been better for Buffy if he'd left? She needed
      to feel ...something. He gave her something. Maybe not altogether a good
      something but more than anyone else was offering. What did Xander or
      Willow or Tara or Dawn do for Buffy?  Look at her side-ways. Run up
      bills without offering to pay. Live in her house for free? Expect her to
      go back to her "life" as if nothing had happened?  Season 6 is my least
      favorite because I spent the whole year wanting to kick the Scooby Gang.
      
      
      And, after all, she was never going to have a normal relationship with a
      normal person. She *did* like the bad boys. She *did* like a bit of the
      monster in her man. She needed someone who she could be honest with
      about what she did. She needed someone she could knock around without
      hurting - someone who might actually enjoy the pain. Angel was a no-go
      because they could never have sex (assuming one buys that any sex with
      Buffy is 100% perfect happiness)(Not a theory I subscribed to but one
      which TPTB seemed to like) and Buffy was not designed to be a nun.
      Xander was too close and too nice. Giles apparently had scruples <eg>.
      Riley  had issues of his own. Spike was there. Spike loved her. Spike
      enjoyed pain. Spike was loyal. If Buffy's friends could have relaxed,
      Spike was perfect for Buffy. Maybe not for a lifetime, but for a few
      years of carefree sex and comfort, sure.
      
      Marina:
      > I'd prefer Angel and Faith.
      
      Kamil:
      >*pant*  <g> 
      
      Angel and Faith are good for each other because she likes to beat up her
      men and Angel so desperately wants to be punished. And I suspect that
      sex with Faith would never be 100% perfect happiness for anyone.
      
      >Moving on past my kink I prefer Faith with either Gunn or Wesley,
      
      Gunn was such a nothing after the first few episodes.  By the end, he
      was unrecognizable as the street fighter he had been. He and Fred had
      zero chemistry. I just never saw Gunn as sexy. Not that the actor wasn't
      nice to look at, I just never felt any heat coming off the screen.
      
      Wendy( Wes was lovely but he needed more backbone.)(I suppose being
      English, he was at a disadvantage.)(The Englishmen on the List will
      please disregard the previous statement as it was not intended to be a
      slur - implied or otherwise- against real Englishmen anywhere.)(That
      we've come to this- issuing disclaimers on parenthetical remarks to
      stave off accusations of libel.)
      
      ------------------------------
      
      Date:    Sat, 18 Mar 2006 10:13:31 -0500
      From:    kageorge <kageorge1@verizon.net>
      Subject: Re: Buffy, slash, non-HL  topics ( was RE: Highlander DVD sets - which to get?)
      
      Wendy wrote:
      
      >
      >I liked Spike. The whole series (post-season one) was about Spike. It
      >was never really about Buffy. Buffy had almost zero growth for the
      >entire run. She was always just...Buffy. I sympathized with her
      >predicament. I thought her "friends" treated her like shit on occasion.
      >But, start to finish, she was the Chosen One. She took her position
      >seriously, rebelled remarkably little for a teenager (more than past
      >Slayers but still...) she loved, she lived, she died, she pined for
      >Angel, she saved the world a lot. Angel was an angsty wuss from start to
      >finish. His "curse" kept him in line - without his soul he was a
      >monster.  It is Spike who grew and changed and became a better "man".
      >>From Sid Vicious wannabe terrorizing Back-to-School night to sacrificing
      >myself to save the world is a journey...and a journey he made without
      >losing that nice sarcastic edge he started out with. Even before he had
      >a soul, Spike was less of a monster than most of the other monsters. 
      >
      >  
      >
      I absolutely agree with you here.  I never got much into this show, or 
      into "Angel," but of all the characters, Spike was the most interesting 
      because we saw him change over time, consistent with what happened to 
      him.  And for all the tall, dark, angsty handsome-ness of Angel, he 
      seemed utterly one-dimensional to me, with a virtually never-changing 
      facial expression.  I thought it was the actor, frankly, but while 
      "Bones" has some major problems and flaws, David B. seems to have 
      finally found a part that lets him, ya know... act.  And, by golly, he 
      actually has a few expressions other than 'dour' and 'unhappy' (which 
      always seemed the same to me).
      
      MacG
      
      ------------------------------
      
      Date:    Sat, 18 Mar 2006 19:31:09 +0200
      From:    TMar <tmar@polka.co.za>
      Subject: Re: Highlander DVD sets - which to get?
      
      Kamil wrote:
       >*sigh* I miss my dead gay show.
      
      Me too, honey.
      
      - Marina.
      
      \\ "I'm like every other kid in America. We all ||>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> //
      //  wanna be astronauts... 'to boldly go where  || R I C H I E >> \\
      \\  no man has gone before'."  - Matt Sikes to  ||>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> //
      //   Cathy Frankel; Green Eyes (Alien Nation)   ||````````````````\\
      \\===============tmar@polka.co.za===============||,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,//
      //=============Chief Flag Waver and Defender of Richie============\\
      
      "Nothing in the world is the way it ought to be. It's harsh and 
      it's cruel, but that's why there's us ... We live as though the 
      world were how it should be, to show it what it can be." - Angel
      
      ------------------------------
      
      Date:    Sat, 18 Mar 2006 19:43:32 +0200
      From:    TMar <tmar@polka.co.za>
      Subject: Re: Buffy, slash, non-HL  topics ( was RE: Highlander DVD sets - which to get?)
      
      Wendy wrote:
       > Make it stupid fans. Period.
      
      Well, fans can be very stupid. I include myself in that. Hope you (the 
      list you,
      not you only, Wendy) can be honest enough to include yourselves, too. But
      isn't that what fandom is about? To occasionally be stupid? To do things (or
      write things) that afterwards make you go, "Was I on *crack* when I did
      that?!!"
      
      I read some of my early fanfic (no, not even the slash - the het stuff in my
      pre-slash phase, before y'all knew me) and that's what I say to myself. :)
      
       >I liked Spike. The whole series (post-season one) was about Spike.
       >It is Spike who grew and changed and became a better "man".
      
      The commentary for a couple of episodes (Buffy eps I think - could even
      be that fifth season ep... uh.... nope, I forget the name - the one where
      we see Spike kill the other Slayers in flashback - Fool for Love - hah!)
      says that Spike is somewhat of a special case for a vampire - something
      about, his personality didn't change so much as everything in his un-life
      was a reaction to things that had happened to him before he was brought
      across.
      
      Which is interesting, but they never explored that. It makes sense,
      though.
      
       >He gave her something. Maybe not altogether a good
       >something but more than anyone else was offering. What did Xander or
       >Willow or Tara or Dawn do for Buffy? Look at her side-ways. Run up
       >bills without offering to pay. Live in her house for free? Expect her to
       >go back to her "life" as if nothing had happened? Season 6 is my least
       >favorite because I spent the whole year wanting to kick the Scooby Gang.
      
      What were the writers thinking? Especially with that whole overdone "magic
      is like drugs" thing. It came out of nowhere and just served to depress the
      audience more. And poor Tara spent the season pining and then getting
      killed. No one deserves that. Shame.
      
       >Gunn was such a nothing after the first few episodes. By the end, he
       >was unrecognizable as the street fighter he had been.
      
      He even said it: "I was cool before I met y'all." (Waiting in the Wings, 
      season 3.)
      
       >( Wes was lovely but he needed more backbone.)
      
      He needed the backbone without pining over Fred. She never deserved him.
      Out of the Buffy and Angel characters, I really don't like Fred. Was
      re-watching some early eps and was struck by how much I don't like her.
      Every ep I just want to reach through the screen and bang her head against
      something.
      
       >(That we've come to this- issuing disclaimers on parenthetical remarks to
       >stave off accusations of libel.)
      
      You'd think this was a Delphi forum or something. :)
      
      - Marina.
      
      \\ "I'm like every other kid in America. We all ||>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> //
      //  wanna be astronauts... 'to boldly go where  || R I C H I E >> \\
      \\  no man has gone before'."  - Matt Sikes to  ||>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> //
      //   Cathy Frankel; Green Eyes (Alien Nation)   ||````````````````\\
      \\===============tmar@polka.co.za===============||,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,//
      //=============Chief Flag Waver and Defender of Richie============\\
      
      "Nothing in the world is the way it ought to be. It's harsh and 
      it's cruel, but that's why there's us ... We live as though the 
      world were how it should be, to show it what it can be." - Angel
      
      ------------------------------
      
      Date:    Sat, 18 Mar 2006 18:23:52 -0000
      From:    Jette Goldie <jette@blueyonder.co.uk>
      Subject: Re: Buffy, slash, non-HL  topics ( was RE: Highlander DVD sets - which to get?)
      
      From: "Wendy" <Immortals_Incorporated@cox.net>
      > Wendy( Wes was lovely but he needed more backbone.)(I suppose being
      > English, he was at a disadvantage.)(The Englishmen on the List will
      > please disregard the previous statement as it was not intended to be a
      > slur - implied or otherwise- against real Englishmen anywhere
      
      Of course that may be because the actor portraying the Englishman
      onscreen wasn't actually English, he'd just lived there for a while <g>
      
      Jette Goldie
      jette@blueyonder.co.uk
      
      ------------------------------
      
      Date:    Sat, 18 Mar 2006 16:01:30 -0500
      From:    Wendy <Immortals_Incorporated@cox.net>
      Subject: Re: Buffy, slash, non-HL  topics ( was RE: Highlander DVD sets - which to get?)
      
      I said:
      >>( Wes was lovely but he needed more backbone.)(I suppose being 
      >> English, he was at a disadvantage.)(The Englishmen on the List will 
      >> please disregard the previous statement as it was not 
      >> intended to be a slur - implied or otherwise- 
      >>against real Englishmen anywhere)
      
      Jette replies:
      > Of course that may be because the actor portraying the 
      > Englishman onscreen wasn't actually English, he'd just lived 
      > there for a while <g>
      
      Very well <g>
      
      ( Wes was lovely but he needed more backbone.)(I suppose being English,
      he was at a disadvantage.)(The real and pretend Englishmen on the List
      will please disregard the previous statement as it was not  intended to
      be a slur - implied or otherwise- against real or pretend Englishmen
      anywhere)
      
      Wendy(Better?)
      
      Immortals Inc.
      immortals_incorporated@cox.net
      "Weasels for Eternity" 
      
      ------------------------------
      
      Date:    Sat, 18 Mar 2006 15:45:52 -0600
      From:    Ginny Gibbs <red57metoo@yahoo.com>
      Subject: Re: HLWW, Carmel and Cons...
      
      Wendy of Weasel fame added peripherally:
      
      >
      >(OK, OK)(I like the imagery of a toxic lawn sprinkling troll)(It
      >has...poetry to it.)
      >  
      >
      Especially if you have seen "Wallace and Gromit and the Were-Rabbit." 
      Now THOSE trolls have FRICKIN' LASER BEAMS in their heads.
      
      (yes, yes, I know it's just their eyes glow red when rabbits get in 
      amongst the rutabagas)(trust me to only focus on the funny)
      
      ------------------------------
      
      Date:    Sat, 18 Mar 2006 15:59:29 -0600
      From:    Ginny Gibbs <red57metoo@yahoo.com>
      Subject: Re: Buffy, slash, non-HL  topics ( was RE: Highlander DVD sets - which to get?)
      
      >  And for all the tall, dark, angsty handsome-ness of Angel, he seemed 
      > utterly one-dimensional to me, with a virtually never-changing facial 
      > expression.  I thought it was the actor, frankly, but while "Bones" 
      > has some major problems and flaws, David B. seems to have finally 
      > found a part that lets him, ya know... act.  And, by golly, he 
      > actually has a few expressions other than 'dour' and 'unhappy' (which 
      > always seemed the same to me).
      >
      > MacG
      >
      >
      I was surprised to find myself liking "Bones." We have TiVo and so often 
      miss out on stuff when it first begins unless we make a point of 
      catching it. Thus the show slipped under the radar. Kept seeing postive 
      reviews, and one night we decided to watch just to see what Boreanaz was 
      up to.
      
      Well, color us surprised. We're fans of the various CSI-like shows - 
      mostly because of the science, but also prefer the more character-driven 
      shows. Now we're somewhat fans of this show, too. The quirks of Bones' 
      lead character, and of her team, keep us watching. And it's amusing to 
      see Boreanaz dare to be goofy.
      
      ------------------------------
      
      End of HIGHLA-L Digest - 17 Mar 2006 to 18 Mar 2006 - Special issue (#2006-61)
      ******************************************************************************
      
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