HIGHLA-L Digest - 18 Jun 2004 to 19 Jun 2004 - Special issue (#2004-112)
Automatic digest processor (LISTSERV@lists.psu.edu)
Sat, 19 Jun 2004 21:15:24 -0400
There are 22 messages totalling 817 lines in this issue.
Topics in this special issue:
1. Wait! Where's the Real Second ep? (6)
2. Amanda (4)
3. Season Four dvds: Double Eagle
4. so...lets make up those missing eps ourselves... (9)
5. Tragedy is easy, comedy is hard.
6. Is DPP defunct?
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Date: Fri, 18 Jun 2004 23:48:27 -0400
From: Wendy Tillis <immortals_incorporated@cox.net>
Subject: Re: Wait! Where's the Real Second ep?
Ellen asks:
>Is FAMILY TREE the reall 2nd ep? If not what is? There are so many
>missing pieces...how did Richie suddenly get so integrated into Mac and Tessa's
>lives? No links are provided.
Ah....another person enters the Highlander Triangle of Lost Episodes.
Yes, "Family Tree" is really the second episode (although it wasn't shown second way back when).
Yes, there are many missing pieces.
No, there are no links provided.
No information on what Tessa said when Duncan suggested that Richie come live with them. No information on what Richie thought of the deal. No scenes of discord or even adjustment as Duncan and Tessa went from being a carefree couple with no children (who could have sex on the living room floor at noon if they wanted) to being "in loco parentis" of a juvenile delinquent. One minute Connor is advising Duncan to keep an eye on the boy and the next minute the boy has moved in and is working at the shop.
The other most glaring example of a Lost Episode is the one that should be between "Darkness" and "Eye For An Eye".
Wendy(Other episodes *should* have been lost.)(Like The Blitz.)(And most of the pure comedies.)(And any episode with a dwarf.)(Or a bleeding rose)(or motorcycles racing)(Unless Methos was in them)
Immortals Inc.
immortals_incorporated@cox.net
"Weasels for Eternity"
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 18 Jun 2004 20:58:09 -0700
From: Jen <data@cyberg8t.com>
Subject: Re: Wait! Where's the Real Second ep?
>
> Wendy(Other episodes *should* have been lost.)(Like The Blitz.)(And most
of the pure comedies.)(And any episode with a dwarf.)(Or a bleeding rose)(or
motorcycles racing)(Unless Methos was in them)
> Immortals Inc.
> immortals_incorporated@cox.net
> "Weasels for Eternity"
Motorcyles. *eye twitch* Motorcyle gang Immortals. *twitch twitch*
Jen the Fangirl
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 18 Jun 2004 21:36:01 -0700
From: FKMel <sgt_buck_frobisher@yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: Wait! Where's the Real Second ep?
I never minded the comedies, but I thought some eps
like The Zone and probably the Blitz should've been
lost.
Mel (and most of the Season 6 eps)
yeah--- Jen <data@cyberg8t.com> wrote:
> >
> > Wendy(Other episodes *should* have been
> lost.)(Like The Blitz.)(And most
> of the pure comedies.)(And any episode with a
> dwarf.)(Or a bleeding rose)(or
> motorcycles racing)(Unless Methos was in them)
> > Immortals Inc.
> > immortals_incorporated@cox.net
> > "Weasels for Eternity"
>
>
> Motorcyles. *eye twitch* Motorcyle gang Immortals.
> *twitch twitch*
>
>
> Jen the Fangirl
>
=====
The trouble with immortality is that it tends to go on forever-Herb Cain
NickNatpacker,Knightie,Knight of the Cross;Duncan, Tessa and Joe flags-waver, Dueser,Fan of Buffy and Angel's true and undying love for one another
http//:groups.yahoo.com/group/thavisionthing-That Vison thing Angel rpg
__________________________________
Do you Yahoo!?
Yahoo! Mail - 50x more storage than other providers!
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------------------------------
Date: Sat, 19 Jun 2004 08:51:47 +0200
From: T'Mar <tmar@sifl.iid.co.za>
Subject: Re: Wait! Where's the Real Second ep?
Mel wrote:
>I never minded the comedies, but I thought some eps
>like The Zone and probably the Blitz should've been
>lost.
No, no, not The Zone! It has Michael Shanks in it!!
<g>
- Marina.
\\ "I think somewhere on the road to reality, ||>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> //
// you took a left turn." - Nowhere Man || R I C H I E >> \\
\\==============tmar@sifl.iid.co.za===========||>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> //
//===Chief Flag Waver and Defender of Richie==|| \\
"What about the fact they thought we were gay?"
"Adds mystery." - Wesley and Angel; "Expecting" (Angel)
------------------------------
Date: Sat, 19 Jun 2004 03:47:11 EDT
From: Degruy@aol.com
Subject: Re: Wait! Where's the Real Second ep?
They are all good for one reason or another. Sometimes a very small reason.
But all are worth watching at least once.
But I talk to myself alot.
Edward deGruy
Student of Humanity
@}----------
Some Fun Things To Do When Watching Lord Of The Rings:
Every time someone kills an Orc, yell: "That's what I'm Tolkien
about!"
------------------------------
Date: Sat, 19 Jun 2004 09:06:22 -0400
From: kageorge <kageorge@erols.com>
Subject: Re: Amanda
From: "MacWestie" <mac.westie@verizon.net>
> Sandy--
> > But what about his early relationship with Kristin. That one certainly
> > looked as if he was a "kept man".
>
>
> Well, she had to burn his clothes & talk him into it. Her strategy was
that
> he needed to learn how the better half lived, & he rather reluctantly
> conceded the point--plus, it looked like fun. I'm sure he was a model
> student, probably an avid learner in some of the more intimate subjects;
all
> his later lovers owed a great debt to Kristin....
>
> Sure, they had a less than completely romantic arrangement, but many
couples
> did & still do. That doesn't make one partner a whore or a gigolo. He
> never seemed happy w/ the set-up; when he fell for the artist, he clearly
> went w/ his heart. As he said--he was no silken fop, & he wasn't a gigolo
> either.
I think the distinction is negligible, myself. He accepted financial
support in return for providing sexual favors and a "gentleman's attention"
for women in a higher social and better financial position than himself. He
was their boy toy. He clearly knew he was attractive enough to be a little
choosy about his liaisons - in other words he didn't have to bed some
elderly matron if he didn't want to. So, he enjoyed his work, and such
positions (for a man) did not come with the social stigma that being a man's
mistress did.
Amanda was similarly attractive, but probably had less control over her life
and who she could choose to provide for her. She didn't have the social
background (unless she artificially created an identity, which I have no
doubt she could do) to be immediately accepted into the nobility, and over
the centuries might find herself in situations where survival dictated that
she trade sex for support, or even directly for money. The situations are
different only because the power positions of males and females in society
were different. Even the words "gigolo" and "whore" have totally different
connotations, even though they have much the same meaning. It is assumed
that a gigolo does it because he wants to, and a whore does it because she
has to, and/or has no moral values.
MacGeorge
------------------------------
Date: Sat, 19 Jun 2004 09:26:26 -0400
From: Heidi <heidi@bronze.lcs.mit.edu>
Subject: Re: Wait! Where's the Real Second ep?
From: Jen <data@cyberg8t.com>
Motorcyles. *eye twitch* Motorcyle gang Immortals.
Sounds like `The Lost Boys'.
=}{=
(heidi@bronze.lcs.mit.edu)
------------------------------
Date: Sat, 19 Jun 2004 10:45:23 -0400
From: kageorge <kageorge@erols.com>
Subject: Season Four dvds: Double Eagle
COMMENTARY: David Tynan says that Double Eagle was one of the most
enjoyable writing experiences in all his years writing for Highlander. They
had Amanda, and while most of their stories, even when they had humor in
them, centered around very serious themes of death, revenge, mercy,
forgiveness, etc., but "inside every dramatic writer's skin is a comedy
writer trying to get out."
Gillian says DE was one of their best comedy episodes, and they had the fun
of premiering it at a convention. It was great to show it to a room full of
people, where they got to hear the audience reaction.
The opportunity to do comedy rarely occurred, says David T., but in this
show they were told to "throw caution to the winds" and have the whole
episode be light and comedic. Having Amanda and MacLeod together encouraged
that because both Adrian Paul and Elizabeth Gracen enjoyed doing it, and
both had a great sense of comic timing. David T. didn't know it when they
wrote the episode, but it turned out that Stan K. also had a previously
undiscovered comedic gift.
Gillian says that, for Elizabeth, her comedy talent became kind of a curse,
because more and more, whenever she appeared the episode became comedic to
play that aspect of her character.
OUTTAKES: Gillian says one way of achieving a transition to a flashback was
to bring a piece of furniture from one set onto another, and use camera
movement to create a seamless flow from the present to the past. Duncan's
bed was set up in the casino, and the camera panned up to segue to the
flashback. Once Adrian is out of camera range Gillian says, he starts
goofing around. We see a couple of different cuts of Adrian and Elizabeth on
the bed (although, to me, it looks more like they're on the green couch),
the camera pans up straight into the casino, and all the elegantly dressed
people are walking back and forth and we see players at a table. We hear
Adrian's voice commenting on two different takes, as though he were doing a
voice over, that one of the gamblers is Mario Azzopardi, (who was the
episode director, and who also played the wealthy gambler who offered to buy
Amanda's dress). Adrian snidely observes that Mario really looks like a
"professional", at which point Mario looks up and makes a rude hand gesture
in Adrian's general direction, at which point Adrian laughs and yells,
"Cut!"
Gillian explains that the plan was to use computer graphics to replace part
of the screen in the burned out casino. During the filming, the crew was
screwing around acting silly in the part of the screen ultimately to be
covered by computer graphics, but evidently Adrian Paul didn't think they
went far enough in their antics. We see a shot of Adrian and Elizabeth
standing in front of a "burned" portion of a building, with the right side
of the screen open onto a parking lot, where about a dozen crew members are
wildly acting stupid, in what appears to be a bit of deliberate chaos,
making rude gestures, waving their arms, jumping up and down, etc..
Adrian turns to Elizabeth, and although his lines are almost inaudible, it
sounds like he says something like, "I think Mario Azzopardi needs to have a
little moon job. What do you think?" He unbuttons his trousers, turns
around, lowers them, then pulls down his underwear to moon the camera as
Elizabeth covers her face with her hands and the crew laughs and applauds.
As he re-dresses, he yells to the crew, "I told you if you wouldn't do it, I
was gonna do it!"
VIDEO COMMENTARY: Elizabeth Gracen does the commentary for this episode. Her
comments were (as such things frequently are) a little disjointed. I have
condensed them here as best I can.
She says before Highlander, she had never been cast in any comedy before, so
it was an opportunity to be funny, getting to do almost slapstick. Nick
Campbell (Kit O'Brady) is a great improviser, and much of what he did wasn't
scripted, and that it was good to have the end product include some of what
was worked out in improvisation (including the sneezing bit when he senses
other Immortals). The French accent Elizabeth used in the flashback wasn't
scripted, but developed as they went, and approved of by the director. She
says that from the first episode, she and Adrian had a chemistry, that they
are both very hard workers and loved rehearsing, and played well off each
other.
She mentions the costumes that were made for her, done in the old way, with
boning, and while they must have cost a fortune, they were very
uncomfortable. She says the director, Mario, was very amenable to adding
things in, that he was very passionate, dramatic and funny.
She chuckled at the see-through shirt Adrian has on in one of their early
scenes. [NOTE: I've always disliked that shirt, even though others like it
because it is revealing. It just doesn't seem like something Duncan would
wear.]
Back in the flashback, she laughs at herself, saying she had the worst
French accent she'd ever heard.
Having MacLeod not be in control, having him flustered, is so out of
character for him, and to have him not be "so smooth" was funny.
Elizabeth then goes off a little on a tangent, talking about her experience
on "Raven", specifically talking about "chemistry or lack of chemistry",
with regard to Paul (the guy who played Nick Wolfe). She says when a scene
deals with attraction between the characters, you have to make it seem like
the other person is "the bee's knees". She says she realized in the very
first scene she did with Adrian that Amanda thinks Duncan hung the moon, and
he is the hero of the whole series, and you have to make the audience
believe that. She says it doesn't work when the *other* person wants to be
the most attractive, the most exciting, they don't want to give up the power
to let the other person appear like they are magical, and that's what
happened with "Raven", you had two people vying for power, rather than
exchanging it freely, and so the chemistry wasn't there on screen (in
"Raven").
She says shooting Highlander in Paris was always more difficult than in
Vancouver, mostly because they rarely shot in Paris, and there was usually a
long drive to get to shot locations, so the days were much longer. She again
mentions her experience on the Raven, saying that once they got into a
pattern of several fights and a Quickening in most episodes, the filming got
really, really exhausting. "But then," she says, "Adrian's a bull," with a
whole lot of stamina and it was pretty amazing to work as hard as he did for
that many years, but that he truly loved what he did.
THE EPISODE: Immortal Kit O'Brady is playing Mah Jong in a noodle factory in
Macao, jovially discoursing on the non-Asian origins of the game to a rather
serious group as he wins the hand and a lot of money. They are interrupted
by a European who draws a gun, there to collect on a debt. Kit is shot as he
tries to escape, ending up dying in a trash bin. A local, spotting the money
Kit is carrying, takes his bag, covers up the body, and once Brady's
pursuers are sent away, gleefully examines the bag's contents. Unfortunately
for him, Brady wakes up, cheerfully relieving him of the bag. ("Hey, cheer
up. Sometimes they stay dead, sometimes they don't.")
The upshot of the episode is that Kit is an old friend of MacLeod's. Back in
San Francisco in 1888, Kit ran a saloon called the "Double Eagle". Amanda
arrives, a woman of beauty, mystery, seeming innocence and a bad French
accent, and beguiles O'Brady into a poker game. The stakes get higher and
higher until Brady bets the deed to the saloon. Amanda wins, the fact that
she is not French and not innocent becomes apparent, and she won't even
allow him to get back his lucky gold piece (thus the name "Double Eagle")
from its mounting over the bar.
Brady is devastated, MacLeod is caught between them trying to keep the
peace, and when the saloon, renamed by Amanda to the Queen of Spades, burns
down, she blames O'Brady. Ever since, the two have hated each other with a
passion, each swearing to take the other's head.
In the present, O'Brady has come to MacLeod to convince him to put up half
the money to buy a racehorse named (of course) "Double Eagle", convinced
that it will finally restore the luck which has deserted him ever since the
debacle when he lost his saloon. Unfortunately, Amanda comes to visit at the
same time, and we have a lot of comic scenes where Duncan is frantically
trying to keep the two Immortals from knowing the other is around. He
manages to involve Richie in the mess, enlisting him to keep Amanda busy
while he tries to get rid of Kit.
MY COMMENTS: There are lots of fun moments and scenes in this episode. Kit
and Amanda sniping at each other while Duncan tries to intervene; Duncan in
bed with Amanda, using the blue feather in his mouth to tickle and tease
Amanda into giving Kit back his lucky coin; Amanda twisting poor Richie
around her little finger over and over again; Amanda and Kit circling each
other in the dojo, like cats with their fur standing up, ready to fight,
while Duncan frantically comes up with a reason for them not to.
It is fun and light and amusing and visually rich. Comedic acting is really
quite, quite difficult and everyone in the cast really played as a true
ensemble. It is a frothy confection of an episode. Not much substance, but a
lot of style.
MacGeorge
(sekret bonus screen capture at the end of the html version, at:)
http://www.wordsmiths.net/MacGeorge/episodes/Season4/Double.htm
------------------------------
Date: Sat, 19 Jun 2004 11:00:17 EDT
From: Nancy C <NancySSCH@aol.com>
Subject: so...lets make up those missing eps ourselves...
i think its more than reasonable that we be allowed to fill in what's
missing, after all, that's what fan lists are for...um..so..that missing time between
the first and second ep, is anyone up to doing any creative writing? does
anyone even have the energy left to be creative about HL anymore? is there
already an archive where there are 25 versions of this missing time posted? if so,
i'd like to see/read and discuss them, as..well...are they canon or are they
even better? do they work, how could they work better...and why in the world
didn't they (TPTB) bother to do one... (um...people here do acknowledge that
there is some stuff out there better than canon written by some folks right on
this list, right?)...SOME SPOILERS FOR SEASON SIX BELOW HERE
its sort of sad seeing the creative spark that drove the series at the start,
erratic as it was at times, flower to fullness with the methos episodes
(again, erratically) then wither and die with the vision of mac klling him, at the
end of season ..um..was it six?...pure sibling rivalry, he killed the rival,
and along with it, the show and its future...sad, sad, to see that...
------------------------------
Date: Sat, 19 Jun 2004 11:05:26 -0500
From: Ginny <RED57@aol.com>
Subject: Tragedy is easy, comedy is hard.
Earlier, Wendy of the Weasels added parenthetically: (Other episodes
*should* have been lost.)
Okay, let's discuss/argue/wrangle/get down and dirty in a spirited
manner over this.
Which comedies should *not* have been lost - they're either funny enough
to be spared, or they actually add something of value to the Highlander
canon? Discuss (no biting).
I for one think that "Double Eagle" deserves to live - Kit's character
just popped off the screen (well, it was probably the sneezing). My
other favorite comedy was always "Money No Object," because, frankly,
I've always been a fan of blowin' stuff up (which is probably why I'm
now a big Jack O'Neill fan). But hey, I'm juvenile that way. I realize
that they didn't really advance the overall story, but they did add some
engaging backstory that wasn't all tragedy and dead lovers for a change.
Comedies that I think died a well deserved death: well... that's a tough
one, because there's always something to like in even the fluffiest
comedies, and they often are the source of the best character lines. I
think I'd be most likely to chuck "Stone of Scone" completely, but I
find something to like in most of the other comedies (except Sandra
Bernhard, sorry SB fans).
--
Ginny
RED57@aol.com
Fresh out of .sig lines
------------------------------
Date: Sat, 19 Jun 2004 12:08:50 -0400
From: kageorge <kageorge@erols.com>
Subject: Re: so...lets make up those missing eps ourselves...
From: "Nancy C" <NancySSCH@aol.com>
> i think its more than reasonable that we be allowed to fill in what's
> missing, after all, that's what fan lists are for...um..so..that missing
time between
> the first and second ep, is anyone up to doing any creative writing? does
> anyone even have the energy left to be creative about HL anymore? is there
> already an archive where there are 25 versions of this missing time
posted? if so,
> i'd like to see/read and discuss them, as..well...are they canon or are
they
> even better? do they work, how could they work better...and why in the
world
> didn't they (TPTB) bother to do one... (um...people here do acknowledge
that
> there is some stuff out there better than canon written by some folks
right on
> this list, right?)...SOME SPOILERS FOR SEASON SIX BELOW HERE
> its sort of sad seeing the creative spark that drove the series at the
start,
> erratic as it was at times, flower to fullness with the methos episodes
> (again, erratically) then wither and die with the vision of mac klling
him, at the
> end of season ..um..was it six?...pure sibling rivalry, he killed the
rival,
> and along with it, the show and its future...sad, sad, to see that...
(snort) That's very funny. For just a second there, I thought you were
serious. Subtle sarcasm is a real gift.
MacGeorge
------------------------------
Date: Sat, 19 Jun 2004 12:55:27 -0400
From: Dianne Trautmann <diannet@optonline.net>
Subject: Re: Amanda
----- Original Message -----
From: "kageorge" <kageorge@erols.com>
To: <HIGHLA-L@LISTS.PSU.EDU>
Sent: Saturday, June 19, 2004 9:06 AM
Subject: Re: Amanda
> From: "MacWestie" <mac.westie@verizon.net>
>
> > Sandy--
> > > But what about his early relationship with Kristin. That one
certainly
> > > looked as if he was a "kept man".
> I think the distinction is negligible, myself. He accepted financial
> support in return for providing sexual favors and a "gentleman's
attention"
> for women in a higher social and better financial position than himself.
He was their boy toy.
Consider in this debate Duncan's feelings on the subject, which were hinted
at in the episode Avenging Angel from first season. When Tesa has a fit
about Elaine's call girl profession, he defends her and gives Tessa a look
of resignation. He offers words of kindness, not condemnation to Elaine
about moving on and reinventing herself, and that what she's done as a call
girl wasn't so bad/ doesn't matter in the long run. I think he was offering
this advice from the point of view of someone who had indeed walked a mile
in her shoes. And I think she had the vague impression of that too when she
commented that it sounded like he was speaking from experience.
You do what you have to do to survive. Isn't that what the game is all
about?
Dianne Trautmann
(steadily working her way out of lurkerdom)
------------------------------
Date: Sat, 19 Jun 2004 19:26:51 +0200
From: T'Mar <tmar@sifl.iid.co.za>
Subject: Re: so...lets make up those missing eps ourselves...
Nancy C wrote:
>i think its more than reasonable that we be allowed to fill in what's
>missing,
Nina, please don't hurt her.
- Marina. (OTOH, I'm sure Wendy could come up with a hypothetical,
non-fanfic ep a la "Unholy Alien"...)
\\ "Good girls go to heaven. ||>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> //
// Bad girls go to Smallville." || R I C H I E >> \\
\\ - 'Sorority Boys' wallpaper ||>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> //
//=======tmar@sifl.iid.co.za========|| \\
\\=======Chief Flag Waver and Defender of Richie=======//
"You know, Kent, it's always been my policy to back my reporters one
thousand percent. I mean, if you went up there and opened those
windows and told me that you could fly, I'd back you up. I'd miss
you, but I'd back you up." - Perry White; Lois & Clark.
------------------------------
Date: Sat, 19 Jun 2004 15:20:45 -0400
From: Sandy Fields <diamonique@comcast.net>
Subject: Re: so...lets make up those missing eps ourselves...
At 11:00 AM 6/19/2004, Nancy C wrote:
>i think its more than reasonable that we be allowed to fill in what's
>missing, after all, that's what fan lists are for...um..so..that missing
>time between
>the first and second ep, is anyone up to doing any creative writing? does
>anyone even have the energy left to be creative about HL anymore? is there
>already an archive where there are 25 versions of this missing time posted?
I don't know where any archives can be found. I'm sure someone here would
know. But I recall that Sandra McDonald (is that the right name?) wrote a
second ep that I really enjoyed. It fit just right. Sandra was very good
with the Richie character, as I recall. I'm blanking on the title of this
one though. If I think of it I'll post it.
-- Sandy
------------------------------
Date: Sat, 19 Jun 2004 15:32:40 EDT
From: Highlandmg@aol.com
Subject: Re: so...lets make up those missing eps ourselves...
Hi
Fan Flic name is "Tough Love. There are others out there too from 7th heaven
Mary
------------------------------
Date: Sat, 19 Jun 2004 17:35:01 -0400
From: Sandy Fields <diamonique@comcast.net>
Subject: Re: so...lets make up those missing eps ourselves...
At 03:32 PM 6/19/2004, Highlandmg@aol.com wrote:
>Hi
>Fan Flic name is "Tough Love.
Hmm... now that you mention it, I think it's "Tough Guy". Thanks Mary!
-- Sandy
------------------------------
Date: Sat, 19 Jun 2004 17:53:07 EDT
From: Highlandmg@aol.com
Subject: Re: so...lets make up those missing eps ourselves...
Cripes I went down and look at it I typed Guy but Love came out. Its AOL
fault.
Mary
------------------------------
Date: Sat, 19 Jun 2004 18:40:03 -0400
From: Sandy Fields <diamonique@comcast.net>
Subject: Re: so...lets make up those missing eps ourselves...
At 05:53 PM 6/19/2004, Highlandmg@aol.com wrote:
>Cripes I went down and look at it I typed Guy but Love came out. Its AOL
>fault.
LOL! One more reason for me to hate AOL. Dropped it years ago and haven't
missed it at all. :-)
-- Sandy
------------------------------
Date: Sat, 19 Jun 2004 14:06:42 -1000
From: MacWestie <mac.westie@verizon.net>
Subject: Re: so...lets make up those missing eps ourselves...
Nancy--
(um...people here do acknowledge that
> there is some stuff out there better than canon written by some folks
right on
> this list, right?)
You may like something better than you like the truth, but it's still a lie.
Marina--
>Nina, please don't hurt her.
Sigh. I remember when the list wasn't so saccharine.
Nina
mac.westie@verizon.net
------------------------------
Date: Sat, 19 Jun 2004 14:40:54 -1000
From: MacWestie <mac.westie@verizon.net>
Subject: Re: Amanda
macgeorge--
> He accepted financial
> support in return for providing sexual favors and a "gentleman's
attention"
> for women in a higher social and better financial position than himself.
And so did (& still do today) a significant percentage of people entering
into marriages & other relationships. If it isn't 100% hearts & flowers, is
the poorer party always a whore/gigolo, to you?
> So, he enjoyed his work, and such
> positions (for a man)
Sorry--I drifted off there, musing about DM's manly "positions."
> did not come with the social stigma that being a man's
> mistress did.
In that connection, even HL: Raven, which sanitized Amanda to a distressing
extent, showed her in a 1776 flashback in the New World, w/ the Gov. of NY
said to be her "patron." (Ep #21. War & Peace) Whether that makes her a
whore is up to the individual. We certainly never saw her on a streetcorner
in fishnets & a haltertop (though I recall at least one flashback costume
that would qualify), chanting her services & rates. Mostly we just saw her
in suggestive situations & attire, where she was using men for monetary
gain; I don't see her as unwilling to use sex as necessary or expedient to
get her way. She was called a whore more than once, & I don't think she
bothered denying it. Personally, I think Amanda defies catagorization.
Nina
mac.westie@verizon.net
------------------------------
Date: Sat, 19 Jun 2004 15:12:47 -1000
From: MacWestie <mac.westie@verizon.net>
Subject: Is DPP defunct?
I've been noticing that for several months now, Bill Panzer isn't as
pervasive w/ all things HL as he always has been. (And that's not a
complaint.) I don't recall noticing him in attendance at any recent cons or
promotional events. Instead of "Panzer," recent press references usually
are to "Anderson." The latest DVD set box & accompanying paperwork says HL
copyright & trademark are held by DPP, but the set is released by "Davis
Anderson Merchandising Corp." And--the story recently posted to another
list about AP & the couple who won the T-Bird mentions a Marci _Anderson_
presenting the car.
Did BP sell off his share of the franchise? Lose it over a bar tab?
Finally get committed for persisting in that bizarre Highlander Does
Broadway idea? Legally change his name to foil folks duped by the HL Store?
Probably he just sold off his Highlander merchandising rights to Anderson.
But, really, there's not much else _left_ of HL at this point, other than
merchandising....
Nina (if BP's history, who will screw up HL5?)
mac.westie@verizon,net
------------------------------
Date: Sat, 19 Jun 2004 21:15:23 -0400
From: kageorge <kageorge@erols.com>
Subject: Re: Amanda
From: "MacWestie" <mac.westie@verizon.net>
> macgeorge--
> > He accepted financial
> > support in return for providing sexual favors and a "gentleman's
> attention"
> > for women in a higher social and better financial position than himself.
>
> And so did (& still do today) a significant percentage of people entering
> into marriages & other relationships. If it isn't 100% hearts & flowers,
is
> the poorer party always a whore/gigolo, to you?
I'm just trying to point out that there is very little difference between
Duncan attaching himself to a wealthy woman he doesn't love, and letting her
support him in exchange for sexual favors and companionship, and Amanda
serving the same needs for a wealthy man she doesn't love. You can chose
the label, if you like. I don't condemn either of them for doing what
seemed prudent and necessary at the time.
>
>
> > So, he enjoyed his work, and such
> > positions (for a man)
>
> Sorry--I drifted off there, musing about DM's manly "positions."
(snerk)
>
>
> > did not come with the social stigma that being a man's
> > mistress did.
>
> In that connection, even HL: Raven, which sanitized Amanda to a
distressing
> extent, showed her in a 1776 flashback in the New World, w/ the Gov. of NY
> said to be her "patron." (Ep #21. War & Peace) Whether that makes her a
> whore is up to the individual. We certainly never saw her on a
streetcorner
> in fishnets & a haltertop (though I recall at least one flashback costume
> that would qualify), chanting her services & rates. Mostly we just saw
her
> in suggestive situations & attire, where she was using men for monetary
> gain; I don't see her as unwilling to use sex as necessary or expedient to
> get her way. She was called a whore more than once, & I don't think she
> bothered denying it. Personally, I think Amanda defies catagorization.
In that, we totally agree. I don't think Amanda was ever ashamed of what
she did, nor did it bother Duncan. She did what she needed to survive.
MacG
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End of HIGHLA-L Digest - 18 Jun 2004 to 19 Jun 2004 - Special issue (#2004-112)
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