HIGHLA-L Digest - 16 Apr 2004 to 17 Apr 2004 (#2004-72)
Automatic digest processor (LISTSERV@lists.psu.edu)
Sat, 17 Apr 2004 22:00:04 -0400
There are 9 messages totalling 532 lines in this issue.
Topics of the day:
1. Verbs and Reverbs. (6)
2. Season Three dvds: Song of the Executioner (2)
3. Season Three dvds: Star Crossed
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Date: Fri, 16 Apr 2004 16:25:21 -1000
From: MacWestie <mac.westie@verizon.net>
Subject: Re: Verbs and Reverbs.
John applauds--
> Okay. An honest opinion without the sarcasm or barbs. I appreciate it
Wow--John approves. Now I can die fulfilled....
> Firstly, I have no problem with someone letting people here know if they
> were selling a rare HL item on eBay.
> Actually it would strike me as rather
> insane not to let the HL List know an item was up as that would be the
best
> chance for both parties to get a result they wanted.
And to hell w/ anyone here who wants this to continue as a HL _discussion_
list, as opposed to becoming an online flea market?
> I'll say now that when and if I can afford to get Verbatim #3 out, I
*WILL*
> note that fact here
Color me shocked.
> Everybody has different definitions
> of where they draw that line. In life / on List... I'm sure I piss some
> people off. (My posting style seems to annoy you)
Hot air disagrees w/ me.
Nina
mac.westie@verizon.net
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Date: Fri, 16 Apr 2004 22:27:10 EDT
From: Highlandmg@aol.com
Subject: Re: Verbs and Reverbs.
Hi My two cents here I want to know if someone is selling highlander items or
magazines featuring Highlander pieces.
Mary
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Date: Fri, 16 Apr 2004 16:40:26 -1000
From: MacWestie <mac.westie@verizon.net>
Subject: Re: Season Three dvds: Song of the Executioner
Marina--
> Sure, it's tacky, but it got my point across. (Witness Nina's reaction.
> It's really mature to call *others* immature. Uh-huh.)
I know that your #1 thing here is going on about poor widdle Richie/Stan.
Your #2 thing here is, of course, "fanfic &/or slash is good." I do
maintain hope that you'll grow out of at least one of those preoccupations.
But, really--making a vile crack like you did about an HL actor's personal
life, just to tease the list, is going too far. The list isn't THAT
desperate for discussion points.
> - Marina. (Who only posts to see who gets riled up.) (And stops when it
> gets boring, or Nina's insults reach critical mass.)
It usually looks to me like you quit posting when you can't defend your
position.
Nina
mac.westie@verizon.net
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Date: Fri, 16 Apr 2004 23:08:13 -0400
From: kageorge <kageorge@erols.com>
Subject: Re: Season Three dvds: Song of the Executioner
From: "T'Mar" <tmar@SIFL.IID.CO.ZA>
> Sure, it's tacky, but it got my point across.
Yes, it was tacky, tasteless, and had absolutely nothing to do with HL.
Unfortunately, it also didn't get your point across (whatever that was,
since I never quite figured that out). As far as I know, opinions about the
actors and the characters *in the context of their work on HL* are part and
parcel of this discussion list. If you wish to critique any of them, feel
free.
MacG
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Date: Sat, 17 Apr 2004 00:27:04 -0500
From: Ginny <RED57@aol.com>
Subject: Re: Verbs and Reverbs.
Highlandmg@aol.com wrote on 4/16/2004, 9:27 PM:
> Hi My two cents here I want to know if someone is selling highlander
> items or
> magazines featuring Highlander pieces.
>
>
> Mary
>
Strange. It popped into my head earlier this evening that rather than
tossing out the Highlander Convention (1998) video I found in a "give
away" box, I should offer it to the list first. And then I see there's a
lot of stuff for sale up on eBay and being discussed here. Maybe it's
the time of year.
I've also got a big banker's box full of old Highlander videos (recorded
by yours truly all those years ago, complete (in most cases) with
commercials of the era because I couldn't bear to pause the tape and
risk missing the beginning of the next scene. I was going to chuck them
out, because I haven't looked at them in years. And if I really wanted
to look at them, I'd much rather have DVDs instead.
Besides the HL tapes (I was something of a completeist, but I got out of
the taping habit in season 4 or 5 somewhere), I think I've got the
complete and only season of Earth 2 (which shows up on SciFi
occasionally) and a few other even more obscure and weird SF shows
(Space Precinct. Don't ask. Even Gillian thought Rob Youngblood was hot).
Plus some other junk. 72 tapes. Probably not worth the cost of shipping.
If anybody wants to keep this mess out of a landfill, drop me a line.
It's all in US tape format.
Somewhere around here, in a box or a folder, I have an old TV Guide that
had a feature article about AP and the show. I kept it because for the
longest time, that was the *only* press I saw about the show at all - it
was before I got online and found HIGHLA-L. Good times. ;)
However, I will never give up my folder full of old HL Gathering
convention badges and "H I G H L A N D E R" whack-a-bunny, save a chat
buttons (I'm lookin' at you, Z)
--
Ginny
RED57@aol.com
ginny@midrange.com
http://www.blogula-rasa.com
Fresh out of .sig lines
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Date: Sat, 17 Apr 2004 11:35:04 +0100
From: "a.j.mosby" <a.j.mosby@btinternet.com>
Subject: Re: Verbs and Reverbs.
think some of us have a problem with paying for "information" that was once
given away for free.
>
> >Sure... I keep some information back so people will buy the magazines. I
> >make just enough money to pay the rent and in Verbatim's case just enough
> >to keep producing it.
>
> I suspect that this is the real issue. This List has always been a place
for fans to exchange both ideas *and* information. For free. Janine didn't,
to the best of my knowledge, sell her list of Vancouver Highlander
locations. A Listee who found out where shooting was going to take place
didn't offer to sell us the location or the report from the set. Spoilers
weren't put up for sale, they were posted (with the appropriate 24 lines of
spoiler space most of the time). Gillian and Donna, to the extend allowed by
their jobs, passed on what information they could. If a fan overheard BP
taking about an episode or a planned guest star or a new movie, that
information was posted as fast as it could be typed up. Convention reports
were posted in minute detail even though the attendees had paid to attend
and many of the readers hadn't. Fans spread information to other fans.
>
> You, OTOH, always want to *sell* us the information. And that...rankles.
It's trying to have things both ways ...to be "just another fan" and to also
be a person who makes money from fans. I personally have always hated the
game of "I Know something you don't know." Now, I totally understand that
selling information is your livelihood. If you just *tell* us what you know,
we won't buy as many magazines. Some people would buy the magazine
regardless just to have it and hold it and look at the pictures. But,
undoubtedly, some people will forego the purchase. And that's lost income to
you. OTOH, I'm not sure it is good manners, as a fellow fan, to "tease" us
with inside information that is only available at a price. Offering us half
the story for free and requiring us to buy the other half is like giving us
free handcuffs and them making us buy the key to get out if them. Not a game
I want to play.
>
> Your mileage may vary.
>
> Wendy(Friends don't make friends buy gossip.)
Wendy,
Thanks for the post. It's an uneasy line I have to walk being both a genuine
fan and someone who *does* get access to information that other fans would
want ahead of time. I do have to make a living and that involves writing
about genre television. Therefore if I get an 'exclusive' I can't really
give it away for free. I'd love to. Trust me, sometimes I'm aching to say
something, but equally I have to pay the rent (and no-one should kid
themselves that I have a yacht stashed away somewhere - I'm possibly the
worst-paid person on the List)
I do hate the 'I know something you don't' attitude that can happen. I'm
REALLY not going for that angle. From my side it's always been 'I've got
this really cool information that you're going to love reading about' - but
I concede that when there's money involved it comes across as more of a
tease than I sometimes anticipate. All I can say is that when any
information is out there, I'm here to discuss it and contribute. (I'll only
not talk about information that I've been specifically told is
time-sensitive etc). I won't just advertise and then disappear into the
ether if it raises ripples here. I'm happy to give my opinions on the
information and clarify if I'm able to. In short, though I make a little
money, I.... a) am not screwing over the fans or attempting to in any way
and b) think I give value for money.
As you've said: Is the magazine article soley the information or the
packaging of that information? For instance... information is and should
always be free... but I don't think that bookshops are morally questionable
for selling reference books. The public can buy them or go to a library
shortly thereafter. Truthfully, if I could run a website that soley got its
incoming money from advertising and could be free-to-all, I'd do it. If I
could get major advertisers for Verbatim, I'd drop the price as much as I
could.
There's enough people out there who've ASKED me to let Lists/Forums know
when a magazine or article I do comes out, that I'll continue to do so.
Usually that will be one single post on each List/Forum to say '#X is ready,
the site is active'. That's all I'll do. I'll be around to discuss stuff
that comes out of any article or event and celebrate Highlander in all the
usual ways, but I won't indulge in overkill for something I'M doing.
Just know I'm *trying* to walk the line.
:)
John
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Date: Sat, 17 Apr 2004 11:04:57 +0100
From: "a.j.mosby" <a.j.mosby@btinternet.com>
Subject: Re: Verbs and Reverbs.
And see. Ya go and spoil it. Your last post was an honest and passionate
post about your opinions and how various things rankle you. There wasn't any
sarcasm, just honest passionate opinion...and then your next response just
go for the one-line 'I can die fulfilled' banter. I could easily go for the
'Soon?' response, but it seems to escape your attention that I like a good
debate, not a slanging match.
> And to hell w/ anyone here who wants this to continue as a HL _discussion_
> list, as opposed to becoming an online flea market?
Soooo, ANY time I post information about the magazines it puts a mighty
roadblock up for ANYone else to discuss ANYthing they want. I'm good, but
not that good. In truth, people can just not respond to the post and if
there's no thread, it'll die on the vine. You can't complain about the
length of a thread when you're regualrly adding to it yourself. If a post
doesn't interest me I don't respond or even read. If a debate gets too
tiresome, I move on. Equally, I'm happy to exhange ideas and opinions for as
long as I think I have anything to contribute.
John
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Date: Sat, 17 Apr 2004 15:04:41 -0400
From: kageorge <kageorge@erols.com>
Subject: Season Three dvds: Star Crossed
COMMENTARY: Bill Panzer says they decided to kill Fitz because in order to
add power and meaning to an Immortal life, sometimes a good guy has to die.
Also, since Roger was very popular with the production crew and the
audience, they could always bring him back in flashbacks to show the buddy
relationship he had with MacLeod.
Stan K. tells us he was stunned by just how human and normal Roger D. was.
He had grown up with The Who as one of the great rock icons, and he was
nervous about working with him, but the first day of the shoot Roger invited
him to dinner, just the two of them. Daltrey was a very nice guy who turned
to the other members of the cast and crew to teach him what he needed to do,
and never wanted particularly to be the center of attention, he wanted to
learn and grow as an actor. Stan recalled that he and Adrian went to London
on a weekend, and came back on the train with Roger. The three of them were
sitting together on the train and people were asking Adrian and Stan for
their autographs and looking at Daltrey, like "who's the old guy with the
blond hair?" It seemed very bizarre to Stan, but he says he thinks Roger is
really happy being an actor, which is a much more normal life than that of a
rock star.
OUTTAKES: They show the scene in the car with Fitz and Duncan as they drive
to Paris from the airport. A couple of times Adrian does the bit where the
scene notation card is shown to the camera, the scene number is announced,
and the little board is closed with a "click" (why do they do that? I think
someone once told me, but that brain cell has since died Surely somebody
here in the film/tv business can tell us.) Adrian first mimics a thick
French accent, then an Indian one, giving both himself and Daltrey the
giggles.
The second scene is of Fitz and Duncan in an outdoor café (where it's
obviously very cold). Adrian blows his lines several times, then finally
turns to the camera and yells "It's freezing!"
The first version of the episode was way over time, and a couple of scenes
were cut. We see Fitz and his lady love in the kitchen feeding each other
whipped creme before engaging in a serious lip-lock, which is then observed
by her jealous lover.
AUDIO COMMENTARY: Ken Gord did the audio commentary during the episode. He
was the producer from Season Two to the end of Season Six. Just as a
disclaimer, I've met Ken Gord and spent a little time with him, as I was his
"handler" (and the part-time handler of Bill Panzer) during the Reunion Con
a few years ago. He is a very nice, very shy man who told me he was
uncomfortable speaking in public. As a result, it did not surprise me that
his commentary is rather stilted and not particularly insightful. He tends
to talk about the more mundane things he knows best: the technicalities of
dealing with various film sites, difficulties with Paris bureaucracy, and
various production details. He certainly talked in glowing terms about Roger
Daltrey ("the salt of the earth"). Gord was in charge of casting, and I have
heard many comments praising his instincts about casting good people,
although he talks about the difficulty and expense of having to re-voice 99%
of the French actors.
He does mention that the barge was small, freezing cold in the winter and
way too hot in the summer, bounced up and down all the time, the river
traffic was noisy, the interior was impossible to light, difficult to get to
and overall quite difficult to deal with, but that it was a great character
piece, so even though they wanted to find a home for Duncan that would have
easier access, they decided to stick with the barge.
They used a new special effects guy for the Quickening that occurs after
Kalas kills Fitz, and during all the explosions a piece of plastic shrapnel
flew up and hit David Robb. To his credit, Robb didn't come out of character
during the Quickening, but he "freaked out totally" after the scene, having
almost been hit in the eye, and Ken really didn't blame him, because that
should never, ever happen. Ken fired the special effects guy as a result. He
says that given the nature of the show, it was amazing that they had as few
injuries as they did. The only two serious injuries they ever had were of
Adrian, and considering that Adrian never used a double for any of the sword
work, it's remarkable that they got away without more trouble.
"I've predicted that 20 years after being on air, the show would become at
least, if not more popular in a cultish kind of way, than when it was on
air," Ken says. "I guess time will prove me right or wrong."
THE EPISODE: Duncan arrives in Paris after having "died" in front of Anne
Lindsay in the midst of a battle with his old enemy, Kalas. He is picked up
at the airport by his old friend Hugh Fitzcairn, a good-hearted ne'
r-do-well.
The trouble starts on the drive to Paris when they are forced off the road
and the car flips over (From the very opening scenes between these two, they
are fun to watch, and Duncan's reaction as Fitz speeds and weaves through
traffic is a nicely played balance of tension and amusement.)
Fitz is a chef, teaching at the Cordon Bleu, and has fallen in love with
Naomi, a fellow chef. Unfortunately, there is another chef there who is also
in love with Naomi and he (Patrick) makes a jealous scene in the kitchen.
We get a lovely flashback to Verona, Italy in 1637, where Duncan is
attempting to guard the virtue of a local prince's beautiful young daughter
from a mysterious suitor, suspected to be the agent of a rival Prince. Of
course, it is Fitzcairn who is wooing her, and the two men circle each
other, trading insults and preparing to duel. They are stopped in their
fight because dueling is forbidden in the city, as is made plain by the
signs posted - which neither Duncan nor Fitz can read. At some point, they
decide not to fight, and go off to drink instead, and Duncan obtains Fitz'
promise "not to go near the palacio again."
Back in the present, Patrick, the jealous chef, comes after Fitz with a gun,
but Fitz disarms him easily then threatens the nitwit with the gun. Ah, but
then we see Kalas meeting Patrick and we know that real evil is now afoot.
In the meantime, Fitz talks Duncan into breaking into the school's computer
records because he says Patrick is going to investigate and find that his
credentials are not all they should be, and Fitz is clueless when it comes
to computers. There is a funny scene where Duncan is trying to alter the
records with Fitz getting in the way and being a pain in the ass. Duncan
finds out that the real reason Fitz wants to alter the records is just to
impress his girlfriend.
Of course, Kalas kills Patrick, gets Fitz to the crime scene with an
anonymous call, and Naomi finds Fitz with Patrick's dead body. The police
arrive, so Fitz ends up throwing himself out the window to escape.
In another flashback, Duncan is berated by the Italian prince because an
Englishman had defiled his daughter. Evidently Fitz kept his promise not to
come to the palace. The girl came to him instead. The Prince tells Duncan to
find the girl, bring her home, and to kill the Englishman. Duncan finds Fitz
in bed with the girl and drags him out by his heels. It turns out, however,
that the girl was far from innocent to begin with, since Fitz says that,
"she even showed me a thing or two."
In the courtyard, Duncan learns that the Prince has ordered that the
Englishman be beheaded and intervenes, demanding that he had the right to
kill Fitzcairn, and the two of them duel (with two swords each), and it
looks like Fitz is struggling. Interestingly, when they move together in a
clinch, Duncan whispers to Fitz to "try and fight me in earnest!"
"I am, you fool!" Fitz gasps. "When do we run?"
With a quick turn and a sharp stab, Duncan delivers a killing blow, then
says, "We don't." [This firmly establishes Fitz as a mediocre swordsman, at
least at that point in time.] Duncan defends Fitz' dead body from being
beheaded, and since he'd been fired by the Prince, once Fitz wakes up (quite
ungrateful for Duncan's efforts), Duncan announces he has decided to learn
to read. "There's more to this reading and writing than meets the eye."
"Then we'll do it together!" Fitz declares. "Besides, you need someone to
keep you out of trouble."
Back at Duncan's barge, Fitz is depressed that his life in Paris is
finished, and when he tells Duncan about the phone call that had lured him
to the scene of the crime, Duncan realizes that Kalas is behind Fitz'
troubles. The police arrive at the barge, Fitz slips into the river,
swimming away and ultimately Duncan follows. Fitz comes out of the water
(curiously dry) at what looks like a bridge under the Seine (although Ken
Gord tells us it was filmed in tunnels underneath what used to be the
Bastille), and Kalas is waiting for him. They are already fighting when
Duncan comes upon them, yelling, but Fitz yells back at Duncan that, "It's
my fight, laddie!"
But Kalas takes Fitz' head.
Duncan waits for the Quickening to be over, and approaches, ready to fight.
"You find me at a disadvantage, MacLeod. I'm not at my best," Kalas gasps,
still weakened by the Q.
"Take your time," Duncan snarls. "I'm not going anywhere."
But Kalas slices through a steam pipe and disappears in the mist. Duncan
doesn't pursue him, choosing instead to kneel by the body of his friend
Fitzcairn, as we see a montage of Fitz' adventures through the centuries.
Back at the barge, Richie says he wished he had known Fitz better.
"Fitz was a real pain in the ass," Duncan says, then smiles sadly. "I'm
gonna miss him."
MY COMMENTS: Well, there are a few plot holes in this episode, although not
quite as many as in Song of the Executioner. We don't know whether the
people who tried to run Fitz off the road at the beginning of the episode
were associated with the jealous chef, or with Kalas, and that is never
explained (or if it was, I missed it).
Richie and Maurice both make appearances that seem more obligatory than
story related - Richie so that he can set up the future scenario of doing
professional motorcycle racing, and Maurice (probably) so that the
must-use-local-continuing-character contract requirement is fulfilled.
Mostly this episode was worth watching because of the marvelous moments,
past and present, between Duncan and Fitz. There is such warmth and
affection between them, even when Fitz was truly being a "pain in the ass."
The two had great comic timing together (with the only jarring note being
when Duncan's pseudo-Scottish accent got even more out of hand than usual).
Fitz was an Immortal who was ever a kid at heart - mischievous, giving,
warm-hearted and full of fun, but also full of deviltry and without much
care for consequences. I mentioned earlier, Duncan seems to be attracted to
well-intended, devil-may-care people. Perhaps he is looking for a balance
from all the responsibility he feels for trying to right the ills of the
world. For a little while, with them, he can just laugh and forget that
weight.
MacGeorge
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Date: Sat, 17 Apr 2004 09:04:32 -1000
From: MacWestie <mac.westie@verizon.net>
Subject: Re: Verbs and Reverbs.
John disapproves--
> And see. Ya go and spoil it. Your last post was an honest and passionate
> post about your opinions and how various things rankle you. There wasn't
any
> sarcasm, just honest passionate opinion...and then your next response just
> go for the one-line 'I can die fulfilled' banter.
That's because the other post got absolutely no where w/ you. Predictably,
you replied by glossing over everything I'd said (so prettily & per your
precise instructions), ending up stating that you'd continue doing as you
darned well please. Great--so will I. Huge shock all around, I'm sure.
> but it seems to escape your attention that I like a good
> debate, not a slanging match.
Don't kid yourself. You don't debate--witness the malarkey you recently
tossed back at Wendy's post. You preach, pontificate, & promote (yourself).
Nina
mac.westie@verizon.net
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End of HIGHLA-L Digest - 16 Apr 2004 to 17 Apr 2004 (#2004-72)
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