HIGHLA-L Digest - 31 Jul 2003 (#2003-173)
Automatic digest processor (LISTSERV@lists.psu.edu)
Thu, 31 Jul 2003 22:00:01 -0400
There are 9 messages totalling 364 lines in this issue.
Topics of the day:
1. why fanfic not original fic
2. the stupid fanfic discussion (no,let's discuss the good bits in Chivalry)
3. the stupid fanfic discussion AGAIN again again (4)
4. AP & T-Bird#2 (3)
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Date: Thu, 31 Jul 2003 21:57:23 +0000
From: beccaelizabeth <r.day@netcom.co.uk>
Subject: why fanfic not original fic
Dotiran@aol.com wrote:
snipped
> have a wonderment/question.
> Why do people write fanfiction?
> What puzzles me is....given the superb skill of some of the authors,
> why aren't they writing "for real."
I wrote (I want to say write but my writing has slowed to a snails pace lately
even if the stories do live in my head) fanfic primarily because I had some
ideas to explore in the Highlander universe that were never touched on by the
series (or at least not explored to my satisfaction). Specific questions that
bothered me were about adoption and family- if you were really tangled up in a
family (or Family) and stayed that way solely because they're your kin, what
would your reaction be if you found out you were a foundling? How would you
feel about the people that placed you with that family? These werent very good
specifically Highlander questions because you can write that without Immortality
being part of it. But I also wanted to have a character who was Family (though
not Italian because I wasnt confident I could get the background right) and had
been organising things from behind the scenes for centuries. Lately I've been
reading Vampire:the Masquerade RPG tie ins and that game world deals with a
whole lot of aspects of what intrigued me. So, story stalled out due to other
people having done it better.
Lately I have new questions, about the clash of philosophies, cultures, beliefs,
religions, conceptions of self, duty, honor, morality. These are specifically
Highlander questions because you use the device of Immortality to bring
characters from every era and belief system together in any age up to the
present, and you use The Game to put all their choices into sharp relief and
pressure them all. The Game is also why you dont get the VtM style Immortal
conspiracy theory stuff, because any set of Immortals has a better reason to
kill each other than to work together. Or so we're told...
Also because the Highlander characters have taken up residence in my head I
wander around and in idle moments have the world around me populated by
Immortals. Like in our local mall theres this bridge with a really long drop
under it and across the bridge is the way up to the castle and on the side I
usually sit theres the food court. So I sit and eat and imagine some sort of
Immortal showdown going on, or how cool it would look to have an Immortal jump
down from that high and get up again. Or theres a place outside the Railway
station which would be a totally awesome place for a Quickening. Theres these
two rows of street lamps and these big round concrete things and my minds eye
can just see the arcing energies and the lamps going boom.
I'm not saying I'm one of those authors who are wasted writing fanfic. I so
need to polish my skills, and just get back to actually getting the words on the
page. BUT even for people that really can write there are certain stories that
are HIGHLANDER stories, and that take up residence in your head until you write
them. plot bunnies. fanfic. You can try and remove the specifically
Highlander references, but for stories that really grow out of the premise of
the show that doesnt really work and you just end up with a bit of a rip off.
Or, if the story is more important to you than who gets the credit, you can
write it as fanfic and make it part of the TV legend.
My story 'Dragon' is one that just wouldnt work, or be particularly amusing, if
it wasnt fanfic. I mean a short story about a Dragon in the mall has some
potential, but change all the names and leave out the Quickening and it loses a
lot of its zip. Besides, the funnest bit was playing with the idea 'all the
legends are true'.
Flip side the other reason I wrote fanfic and not more of my original fic (which
is on my site but is something I wrote, um, about 11 years ago now, when I was a
teenager, and is only good considering that) is a pretty simple numbers thing-
even though I got nice feedback for both kinds of stories, my original fic got
dozens of hits, while my fanfic got hundreds or thousands. And whilst no one
has ever told me nice things about my original fic without me asking, people
still regularly say nice things about my fanfic. Even though its years old.
I've even had email that says they're re-reading one of my stories and it moved
them enough to write again. Which is really rather cool.
Writing original fic is tiring, and getting feedback on it is much more
difficult. In the realm of fanfic you have lists of people lined up to
volunteer to beta read your stuff. For original fic you have to bug all your
friends and acquaintances just to get an opinion. Getting things actually
published somewhere edited, let alone getting paid for them, takes ages and ages
and you have to figure out how and go round places trying to sell them stuff.
And then even if its a good story there can be tons of reasons its not picked
up. Depressing. Also, if you sell things to magazines they can chop them to
bitses and they're allowed to print it with your name on still, which I didnt
realise and which is really bad. Publishing stuff on the net yourself gets
things out to the world as soon as you've written it and in the form you
originally intended. Finding an audience for that work is then kinda difficult,
but for fanfic theres lists full of hungry fen, so instant audience.
And personally, I dont understand about owning things or money or anything
(which is why I have helpful people to make sure I pay the bills) but that means
I have very little incentive to make stories published for money. I just like
sharing stories for fun. And if I can say the things I feel a need to say, find
an audience for it, get feedback, and make fun for other people, thats the whole
thing, the creative process and the point. So why not fanfic?
Official allowed tie in books would be kinda cool to write too. But they
apparently involve deadlines and things that I'm also not good at. And also the
whole long time to publish, not much control, no feedback thing too. So
*shrugs* I stick with fanfic.
Okay, technically I stick with telling my friends stories in the car on the way
in to town but as soon as I get round to writing them down again they're fanfic.
Or are they fanfic anyway only smaller?
anyways, later
beccaelizabeth
http://www.geocities.com/Athens/Delphi/4212/
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 31 Jul 2003 18:19:20 -0400
From: RED57@aol.com
Subject: Re: the stupid fanfic discussion (no,let's discuss the good bits in
Chivalry)
Earlier, Dotiran wondered:
"Why do people write fanfiction?"
I wonder that, too. Not speaking for or against, mind you, just occasionally I wonder too. I tried writing some once and then something happened in the series that made the whole thing pointless other than as an exercise in the mechanics of writing. And then it wasn't that good, so ultimately it was a big self-indulgent timewaster. It was fun for about a week, now it's kind of an embarassment that got deleted long ago.
As to anybody else reading or writing it? Apparently, it floats their boats. They like it, and until they lose interest they'll keep liking it. I think they simply want more of the characters and situations than they've been given, but in a more concrete form that just idle speculation or fantasy.
I don't understand it either. I know passions are high on both sides of the fence, which I also don't understand. It's a pretty "meh" subject.
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 31 Jul 2003 18:27:10 -0400
From: Sandy Fields <diamonique@comcast.net>
Subject: Re: the stupid fanfic discussion AGAIN again again
>Jette said:
> ><sigh> I miss the old round-robin stories we used to have
> >when I first joined this list. sometimes those "wars" nearly
> >did start a fire-fight!
Liser:
>*Sometimes*?
>Were you ever on the Chief Flag Waver's lists during one of those things?!
Oh lordy! I'm having a flashback! The CFW lists during the wars were
something to behold... that's for sure!
-- Sandy (When all groups plan a specific event around a specific character
and the CFW of that character moves him to another location at the last
minute, there's smoke coming out of CFW computers!)
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 31 Jul 2003 23:51:37 +0100
From: "John Mosby (Home)" <a.j.mosby@btinternet.com>
Subject: Re: the stupid fanfic discussion AGAIN again again
On an almost totally unrelated note:
A quick apology for several spelling mistakes in the current Impact (the one
with the HLDU piece). The 's' key ws apparently faulty and therefore some
corrections didn't go through properly. And 'emberessed' was not my fault.
Obviously someone dazzled by the picture of me in my harness grapplign with
the main in rubber.
John
Work of friction
----- Original Message -----
From: "Sandy Fields" <diamonique@comcast.net>
To: <HIGHLA-L@LISTS.PSU.EDU>
Sent: Thursday, July 31, 2003 11:27 PM
Subject: Re: [HL] the stupid fanfic discussion AGAIN again again
> >Jette said:
> > ><sigh> I miss the old round-robin stories we used to have
> > >when I first joined this list. sometimes those "wars" nearly
> > >did start a fire-fight!
>
>
> Liser:
> >*Sometimes*?
> >Were you ever on the Chief Flag Waver's lists during one of those
things?!
>
> Oh lordy! I'm having a flashback! The CFW lists during the wars were
> something to behold... that's for sure!
>
> -- Sandy (When all groups plan a specific event around a specific
character
> and the CFW of that character moves him to another location at the last
> minute, there's smoke coming out of CFW computers!)
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 31 Jul 2003 16:22:53 -0700
From: "R. Shelton" <rshelton2@earthlink.net>
Subject: Re: AP & T-Bird#2
At 4:38 PM -0700 7/31/03, Gregory Mate wrote:
>Oh, I don't know. Colin Farrell could do a passable job (ducking
>and running).
Maybe, but that wouldn't work 'cause DP'd have to pay him even more than AP....
Rachel (joining Greg in ducking & running) :)
--
Rachel Shelton *
rshelton2@earthlink.net
@}->->->-
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 31 Jul 2003 13:42:49 -1000
From: MacWestie <mac.westie@verizon.net>
Subject: Re: AP & T-Bird#2
> >Recast the role of Duncan MacLeod?!?!?!?!?
> >
> >Adrian Paul *is* Duncan MacLeod.
>
> Oh, I don't know. Colin Farrell could do a passable job (ducking and
running).
Or, go the Battlestar Gallactica route & cast, say, Ashley Judd. Alyson
Hannigan, maybe? Or, Gigi Edgley would be...different.
Nina (really hoping AP has something better to do at the time; HL5's
inevitably being crappy will bother me far less if AP's not involved)
mac.westie@verizon.net
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 31 Jul 2003 19:49:28 -0400
From: Wendy Tillis <immortals_incorporated@cox.net>
Subject: Re: AP & T-Bird#2
Rachel wrote:
> not to be
>disparaging, but I don't see/haven't heard of AP doing lots of other
>stuff right now. IMHO, it's doubtful he'll say no to the work & the
>money.
I have to agree. How many movies has AP made since HL:TS went off the air? How many made it to a theatre as opposed to straight-to-video? *If* he still wants to be an actor, then he'd be pretty foolish to turn down a movie that, no matter how bad <eg>, will be released world-wide. It's one thing for Tom Hanks to turn down roles, another thing for AP. ..especially a role that is written for *him*. That said, it's entirely possible that AP doesn't have any urge to be a movie "star" anymore. He may well prefer and enjoy the small quirky roles he's done recently and have no ambition to see his name above the title on a marque. He might not want to continue to be type cast as "the Highlander". .and would prefer to be typecast as " un-named man behind the video counter".
Wendy(I'm sure CL could get him a job on the next Fortress movie<eg>)
Immortals Inc.
immortals_incorporated@cox.net
"Weasels for Eternity"
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 31 Jul 2003 14:23:13 -1000
From: MacWestie <mac.westie@verizon.net>
Subject: Re: the stupid fanfic discussion AGAIN again again
John tries cute--
> 2) Joss has said he doesn't mind fanfic based on Buffy . Nina says she
> doesn't really believe him and even if he did, he's wrong.
I'm still waiting for a JW quote about his being fine w/ people _publishing
& selling_ their Buffy/Angel/Firefly (why would anyone bother w/ Firefly
fanfic?) fanfic. Did he by chance chat w/ _you_ about that recently?
Because, if not, then he's not OK w/ fanfic as we've discussed it.
me before--
> As I stated, the point was the poster's glaringly inconsistent
> attitude. She is fine w/ other people's stuff (an entire fictional
> universe) being used w/o permission in fanfic--just not w/ HER
>stuff (a single post) being used w/o permission.
be--
>>>I was not being inconsistent. As I said, fanfic is an entirely different
situation- they are creating something new out of old parts. Reposting the
whole of someones work without alteration is a different thing entirely.>>>
Well, Leah gave you credit for it--just like HL fanficers pay lip service to
DPP's ownership. And taking the "whole" of a fictional universe
(characters, canon, etc.) as used w/o permission in fanfic is far more
egregious than taking a single factual post like yours.
Clearly, you were done wrong. But, your being affronted by it is just one
step away from the delicious irony when fanficers get in a tizzy at having
_their_ work used by others w/o permission.
be--
>>>Writing original fic is tiring, and getting feedback on it is much more
difficult. In the realm of fanfic you have lists of people lined up to
volunteer to beta read your stuff. For original fic you have to bug all
your
friends and acquaintances just to get an opinion. Getting things actually
published somewhere edited, let alone getting paid for them, takes ages and
ages
and you have to figure out how and go round places trying to sell them
stuff.
And then even if its a good story there can be tons of reasons its not
picked
up. Depressing. Also, if you sell things to magazines they can chop them
to
bitses and they're allowed to print it with your name on still, which I
didnt
realise and which is really bad. Publishing stuff on the net yourself gets
things out to the world as soon as you've written it and in the form you
originally intended. Finding an audience for that work is then kinda
difficult,
but for fanfic theres lists full of hungry fen, so instant audience.>>>
So, writing fanfic is easy, fun, & guarantees you readers. OK.... Yours is
an excellent description of some of the non-monetary profit that fanficers
reap, off the backs of DPP & the other folks who actually own the fictional
universes.
Rottie--
>>>Some of these fanfic writers are so very very very good at what they do.
Why
settle for writing something that can never be truly their own, [or
published]?>>>
Don't be so sure. Carmel (& her attorneys) recently hinted at a strategy
that allows publishing fanfic w/ abandon. It was something about the fans
controlling canon & somehow owning this or that w/in a given fictional
universe. Vague, I know. But, it's a start. I'm sure she'll pop back in
sometime & give the list an update on the legal wars. Heck, I remember when
fanficers argued they were barely a blip on the radar screen. Now, it's big
business. For them.
Nina
mac.westie@verizon.net
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 1 Aug 2003 01:37:36 +0100
From: "John Mosby (Home)" <a.j.mosby@btinternet.com>
Subject: Re: the stupid fanfic discussion AGAIN again again
Nina
" John tries cute--"
Dang. I was trying for merely witty. I overshot.
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End of HIGHLA-L Digest - 31 Jul 2003 (#2003-173)
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