HIGHLA-L Digest - 8 Jul 2003 to 9 Jul 2003 - Special issue (#2003-146)
Automatic digest processor (LISTSERV@lists.psu.edu)
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There are 14 messages totalling 819 lines in this issue.
Topics in this special issue:
1. HL Sequels (was Fanfic & Morals0
2. Fanfic & Morals (10)
3. HL Trivia--season 3 part 2 ANSWERS
4. HL Trivia--season 3 part 3
5. UNSUBSCRIBE
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Date: Tue, 8 Jul 2003 22:17:54 -0400
From: Ace!Miracle <ke731458@pegasus.cc.ucf.edu>
Subject: Re: HL Sequels (was Fanfic & Morals0
SenseiRob wrote:
> you could choose to blame the scripts of Highlander 2, 3, and 4 solely
> on fanfic writers)
I think 3 & 4 suffered from typical sequel-itis: let's try and milk this
franchise for all it's worth.
But what second movie?
--Miracle (I still maintain there is no second movie, and any
videotapes you may see from time to time have fallen in through some
alternate universe)
-------------------------------------------------------------------------
"They say the biggest problem in the world is apathy. But really, who
cares about that?" --Jeremy Lloyd, Laugh-In
-------------------------------------------------------------------------
Minor Major Miracle: Time Lady, Jedi Knight, Occasional English Professor
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 8 Jul 2003 18:06:09 -1000
From: MacWestie <mac.westie@verizon.net>
Subject: Re: Fanfic & Morals
Annie--
> and then there are several pro SciFi
> books that were illustrated by Leah with original illustrations and
cartoons.
So Leah does some "original" work. How nice. What do you 2 call the other
stuff? "Rip-offs"?
Also, a marketing question. You know the cartoon collection you sell on
your website as Highlander calendars--how much of the purchase price do you
have to give to DPP? Smart move calling them "Highlander" calendars, as
opposed to something boring like "Leah's Parodies"--why confuse people?
Leah--
>>>I know the actors and production crew who wrote the stories in AN EVENIGN
AT
JOES, but the entire concept of the book had an onionskin's division between
pro and fanfic. If D-P could be guilty of anyone's accusation of stealing
fanfic, it would be this example of where they acknowledged that the HL fans
enjoy
the collateral tales written about their universe, and are willing to pay
for
a batch of them that D-P legitimizes.>>>
Since DPP did in fact legitimize this particular book & got it published,
what does it have to do w/ fanfic, etc.? Indeed, this precedent indicates,
as did the authorized HL novels, that DPP wants to keep control over
published HL stories, even those written by the people closest to the show.
Leah--
>>>Further to Marina's anecdotes on the subject, when Bill Hupe was running
this enormous fanzine distribution network for dozens of fanzine
publishers>>>
Which goes to show that fanzines are big business--just not for the legal
owners.
me before--
> Situational ethics? Like relative morality? I'd think certain
> folks here would object to that idea. Rottie? Dawn? Oh--maybe it's OK
for
> fanfic, or for Carmel. ..>>
Rottie--
> You can leave me out of this. I don't *do* fanfic so I'm under the radar
of
> your ire on *this* issue.
I wasn't asking your opinion of fanfic. I was wondering what happened to
all that righteous indignation you & others had exhibited so recently over
morality--relative or absolute.
Rottie--
>>>... I see no harm in
people playing with the characters as long as they don't distort them [e.g.
slash] or sell their work for money. >>>
Like Leah's HL calendars?
John--
> Nina seems to think all fanfic is sad and immoral.
I know it's vastly easier for some people to paint it that way.
Unfortunately for you, it isn't accurate. I have said over & over that the
only issue I have is w/ the _unauthorized distribution_ of fanfic. That
will continue, unless someone comes up w/ a sensible reason that genre TV
properties are undeserving of the copyright protections automatically
afforded other intellectual property, or until I am convinced that fanfic
purveyors are special & so above the law & morality.
John--
>>>Other than the above
important distinction, I'd rather tend to agree with Rottie and the official
Highlander site>>>
Note: The official site doesn't say--Go forth & fanfic. It says--Post your
fanfic HERE. Put it on OUR site, losers, where WE control it, it arguably
becomes OUR property, & YOU can't sue US if anything used officially later
on looks like what you posted. Actually, John, it says--"The place for
fans to collaborate on Highlander-themed stories." As in the only
authorized place for fanfic. It also sounds like they think fans write
their little stories together, in kindergarten fashion, which makes me
wonder what TPTB really understand about fanfic. But, despite Carmel's
flights of fancy, there is nothing in that to indicate DPP approve of HL
fanfic distribution elsewhere.
John--
>>> it's only a problem if people seek to profit for something they
haven't purchased the rights for (with the mentioned parody/individual
cartoon excepion under law) >>>
Like Leah's HL calendars?
Nina
mac.westie@verizon.net
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 8 Jul 2003 18:12:40 -1000
From: MacWestie <mac.westie@verizon.net>
Subject: Re: Fanfic & Morals
me before (to John)--
> You DO know what they say about assuming? If
> you MUST assume something, why not assume that DPP _only_ will tolerate HL
> fanfic publicly at their own site, so that this "official word" is trying
to
> discourage fanfic being distributed elsewhere?...
Carmel
>: Because if DPP *only* tolerate HL fanfic on their own site then I
> would assume that they would take 30 seconds to put up a statement saying
> so. .... If I felt as strongly as you suggest DPP might feel, Nina,
> then why would I not take the time to put such a statement up?????
Who knows? If I could read DPP's collective mind, I'd understand why HL:TS
season 6, Raven, & Endgame all sucked.
> John's and my assumption and the assumptions of all HL fanfic
> writers is a legitimate assumption.
No, it's the assumption that lets you merrily do want you want to do, just
like the mind-reading exercise you went through in your post. It's
convenient, not legitimate.
me before--
> I didn't get an answer to my question to you on that--about DPP's
> website feature for fanfic & all the HL fanfic on YOUR site--& I played
> along w/your scenario so nicely....
Carmel--
>Was this your question? "Maybe DPP have no clue about that feature
> on the site;"??? If so, I thought it too silly to even comment on. It is
> their Official website therefore I feel it is perfectly reasonable to
assume
> that they know what is on it. It's just lazy to attempt to throw aside
what
> you cannot give a sensible answer to.
If you can take a break from insulting me, I'll note here that my clearly
stated (& restated) question was about your using DPP's "The place for fans
to collaborate on Highlander-themed stories" website feature to rationalize
you posting HL fanfic on your OWN site. As I noted to John, that isn't a
blanket blessing of fanfic at all, even assuming DPP is aware of this
particular website feature. If, as stated, the official site is "the place"
for HL fanfic, then logically a fan's website is NOT the place for it.
Unless you have special permission from DPP?
Carmel--
> Why not take your arguments to a
> fanfiction list and universe where the owners *do* mind??
Are you telling me to shut up, Carmel? Why ARE you so insecure about this
issue as to get so very worked up & belligerant? It's unbecoming.
Relax--this is just a discussion.
me before--
> we never saw him boffing Methos. Or heard him extolling
> the virtues of distributed fanfic...
Carmel--
> Who mentioned Duncan boffing Methos?? I certainly didn't. I'm not
> discussing slash so please don't turn this into a slash discussion.
Do you have a problem w/ discussing slash?
> I did see him as a
> situational ethicist yet I still regard the man portrayed on our screens
as
> a highly moral person. Like all of us, he is flawed.
Well, unless he had a stated view of distributed fanfic, I don't see his
attitude as relevant, which was my point earlier.
me before--
> Unauthorized use of someone else's property IS stealing.
> Copyrighted material is no different from anything else. You seem to want
> to think fanfic is _nice_ stealing, but there's no magic, personal
exception
> for fanfic or for you. If you _really_ need to do it, then I guess you
> have to rationalize it, but don't expect me to go along....
Carmel--
> but haven't I already admitted that I breach DPP's copyright?
Yes, you have admitted it, & that's stealing.
> No - I don't steal from
> shops. I write fanfic.
And distribute it. So, you steal from DPP. Whether or not they notice,
whether or not they care, whether or not they let you steal for one reason
or another, whether or not they ever do anything about it. But, as long as
you are having a good time....
Nina
mac.westie@verizon.net
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 8 Jul 2003 18:21:11 -1000
From: MacWestie <mac.westie@verizon.net>
Subject: HL Trivia--season 3 part 2 ANSWERS
HL Trivia--season 3 part 2
Courage
What Richie has bartender Mike do for Cullen--call him a cab
What Anne drops on the bike path--her pager
What Cullen sings as he stalks Richie--"Danny Boy"
Establishment where Catherine lived in the flashback-Mrs. Fotheringill's
Residence for Women
How Anne describes her own dancing--"like a giraffe on roller skates"
The Lamb
Where Kenny says he is from--Wisconsin
Who is the little drummer boy--Immortal Sean
What Kenny suggests putting on the fishing line--bird feathers
Kenny's get-away vehicle at the end--school bus
The other episode Kenny appears in--Reunion
Obsession
Name of David Keogh's ex-fiancée & how she "kills" him--Jill, she hits him
w/ her car
David Keogh's gift to Duncan--custom-made rocking chair
What holiday celebration includes square-dancing by Duncan--July 4, 1882
Name of Sarah's husband--Henry Carter
Which episode 1st used the kata footage seen in this episode--Turnabout
Shadows
Richie's guitar player/client--Cory Litman
What Duncan called the official at the witch trials--Sassenach
What Anne's computer check on Duncan did not find--any medical records
What Anne returns to Duncan at the end--elevator key
How Duncan finally recognized the hooded figure as Garrick--his ring
Blackmail
Joe's biggest complaint while on "stake-out" w/ Duncan--he has to go to the
bathroom
Where Kurlow & Duncan fight in the flashback--inside a shrub maze
Name of the attorney who tries to blackmail Duncan--Robert Waverly
What Kurlow uses to strangle the attorney--scarf
Who plays Kurlow, & the other episode the actor appears in--Anthony
DeLongis, Duende
Nina
mac.westie@verizon.net
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 8 Jul 2003 18:26:15 -1000
From: MacWestie <mac.westie@verizon.net>
Subject: HL Trivia--season 3 part 3
HL Trivia--season 3 part 3
Vendetta
Name of the 1938 club?
Peggy McCall's song?
The famous gangster Benny Carbassa got killed?
Where Duncan sends Benny Carbassa off to at the end, & the mode of
transportation?
Duncan to Anne--"Well, let's just say my family is _______."
They Also Serve
Name of the Watcher bartender at Joe's?
Descriptive name of the style of fighting that May-Ling Shen taught Duncan
(as opposed to "the way of the bull")?
How long Ian Bancroft watched Darius?
Immortal Trent's occupation?
According to May-Ling Shen, a man's greatest asset & greatest liability?
Blind Faith
The crime Matthew served prison time for?
John Kirin's old name?
Duncan's job during the Spanish Civil War?
What Kage evacuates from Cambodia rather than the orphans?
Years the 2 flashbacks are set in?
Song of the Executioner
Name of the friend Duncan was supposed to meet at the monastery?
The book Duncan uses to learn to read English?
What Joe is arrested for?
The 2 medications Kalas uses to kill Anne's 2 patients?
Name of the building where Anne sees Duncan die?
Star-Crossed
Type of car Fitz flips while taking Duncan from the airport to the barge?
Fitz's literary endeavor & his final job?
Name of the Prince's daughter who lost her honor long before Duncan was
hired to protect it?What Duncan & Fitz set off together to do in Verona?
The memento Duncan has of Fitz?
Fitz' last words to Kalas?
Nina
mac.westie@verizon.net
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 8 Jul 2003 22:27:21 -0700
From: "R. Shelton" <rshelton2@earthlink.net>
Subject: Re: Fanfic & Morals
At 06:12 PM -1000 7/8/03, MacWestie wrote:
>Carmel
>>: Because if DPP *only* tolerate HL fanfic on their own site then I
>> would assume that they would take 30 seconds to put up a statement saying
>> so. .... If I felt as strongly as you suggest DPP might feel, Nina,
>> then why would I not take the time to put such a statement up?????
>
>Who knows? If I could read DPP's collective mind, I'd understand why HL:TS
>season 6, Raven, & Endgame all sucked.
Ah. . .may I remind you that this is only your opinion - some people
enjoyed HL:TS #6, Raven and Endgame.
At 06:12 PM -1000 7/8/03, MacWestie wrote:
>If you can take a break from insulting me,
I didn't see any insulting done in that post.
At 06:06 PM -1000 7/8/03, MacWestie wrote:
> Put it on OUR site, losers, where WE control it, it arguably
If anyone's being insulting on this thread it seems like it's you
calling fanfic writers losers & thieves. If you don't like it, ignore
it & don't read it - what could be simpler?
Such a tempest in a teapot...
Rachel
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 9 Jul 2003 01:58:32 -0700
From: Gregory Mate <gmate@rogers.com>
Subject: Re: Fanfic & Morals
I'm not going to join in the debate on whether fanfiction is legally or
morally right, because I'm a relativist (and I've contributed to the genre
in the past so I'm an immoral thief in the eyes of some...although I prefer
the term "pirate"...there's something infinitely more cool about a tricone
hat and an eyepatch...).
But really, how far does copyright actually extend in written works? If I
wrote a story about Duncan and Richie living in the year 2112, that's
considered copyright infringement. If I wrote a story about a mentor and
protege named Albert Bigglesworth and Percy Jones, two men who just
happened to have an uncanny ability of living for hundreds or even thousand
of years and virtually mirrored the plot of "Highlander II", would that be
considered copyright infringement? I don't know what the limitations
are. After reading "Sword of Shannara" by Terry Brooks, I saw so many
parallels between it and "Lord of the Rings" that I wondered why he wasn't
sued for plaigarism.
However, I am going to say that I attended a writing seminar conducted by
Janet Pack (and another writer whose name eludes me...memory is good but
short) three years ago. One point Ms. Pack put firmly in my mind: If
you're going to write, you might as well make money at it.
She didn't mean selling fanfiction, either. Basically she meant that if
you're going to take the time and effort to write for someone other than
yourself, you might as well make it marketable.
Granted, some people enjoy writing just for its own sake. YMMV.
....Greg....
gmate@rogers.com
He Who Hasn't Enough Fans To Be Written About
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 9 Jul 2003 08:24:25 +0200
From: T'Mar <tmar@sifl.iid.co.za>
Subject: Re: Fanfic & Morals
Leah wrote:
>Don't have access to the book at this moment, but I'm guessing
>it's in the chapter named "Beauty May Be Only Skin Deep, But Chopped
>Liver Can Get You Anywhere or Six Glorious Days on the Star Trek Set."
And how scary is it that you actually remember that? <g>
- Marina, who knows "Ode to Spot" off by heart.
\\ "And we are scatterlings of Africa on a ||>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> //
// journey to the stars. Far below we leave || R I C H I E >> \\
\\ forever dreams of what we were." - Juluka ||>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> //
//============tmar@sifl.iid.co.za=============|| \\
\\============Chief Flag Waver and Defender of Richie============//
"Blair's always working the room, going for the golden opportunity.
Jim just waits until they show up at his door all needy." - Grey
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 9 Jul 2003 08:24:27 +0200
From: T'Mar <tmar@sifl.iid.co.za>
Subject: Re: Fanfic & Morals
Mel wrote:
><ggl> Nice one, Marina.
Yeah... wish it was mine. I think it originated with Elaine
Walker (on a DS list) but I could be wrong. On one list I
was on, we all had that in our .sig files.
>I've heard about the slashy Dueniverse subtext but
>didn't know that about PG. How about CKR? (Callum
>Keith Rennie for the uninitiated)?
Oh, PG read slash even before the third season and apparently
thought it was a cool idea to put some slashy subtext in when
he became Executive Producer. But (even including the buddy
breathing) it's the kind that non-slashers can ignore if they
want to. I don't know about CKR, but since he and PG are
friends I would think that he doesn't mind.
>I've also heard rumors of so-called slashy subtext in
>the Forever Knight universe, but haven't seen it
>myself....I know there's a couple other FK fans on
>here....you notice any?
Not really. I suppose you could look at Lacroix's possessiveness
as being slashy, but then Nick *was* always trying to get away
from him.
>... doesn't like the idea of Nick and LaCroix
>togther (and who's hoping no members of the Unnamed
>Faction heard that LOL)
Some of the slash stories are pretty good, but I haven't read
FK for years. I always looked at their relationship as being
father and son. Lacroix is like any parent tryng to stop their
child from committing suicide, because that's how he sees Nick's
search for mortality. (And Nick, IMO, always confused mortality
and redemption...)
- Marina. (A Dark Knightie. I'd let Uncle bite me!)
\\ "And we are scatterlings of Africa on a ||>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> //
// journey to the stars. Far below we leave || R I C H I E >> \\
\\ forever dreams of what we were." - Juluka ||>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> //
//============tmar@sifl.iid.co.za=============|| \\
\\============Chief Flag Waver and Defender of Richie============//
"Blair's always working the room, going for the golden opportunity.
Jim just waits until they show up at his door all needy." - Grey
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 9 Jul 2003 08:37:53 +0200
From: T'Mar <tmar@sifl.iid.co.za>
Subject: Re: Fanfic & Morals
Greg wrote:
>Granted, some people enjoy writing just for its own sake. YMMV.
Right, that's the "creative urge"/"art for its own sake" argument
that Nina hates so much. But I think that it's a good argument,
and can be backed up by historical examples. I'm really not
interested in the fanfic argument (had that discussion once
already; it gets boring the second time) but I would argue that
the creative urge that *some* people have makes it that they
*have to* write or paint or whatever. They can't *not*. You get
an idea and you have to get it down on paper or canvas or a
sculpture or whatever just to get the idea *out* of you. If
you don't, you can't rest. And it doesn't matter whether you
get monetary rewards or not, because you weren't doing it for
the money in the first place. I mean, Vincent Van Gogh painted
obsessively his whole life and didn't make any money off painting
while he was alive. Or take the early Impressionists. They were
painting in a style that wasn't accepted, but they kept doing it.
- Marina.
\\ "You've heard it said that living well is ||>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> //
// the best revenge? Au contraire - living || R I C H I E >> \\
\\ forever is the best revenge." - Lacroix ||>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> //
//=============tmar@sifl.iid.co.za=============|| \\
\\=============Chief Flag Waver and Defender of Richie============//
"Blair's always working the room, going for the golden opportunity.
Jim just waits until they show up at his door all needy." - Grey
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 9 Jul 2003 06:57:41 GMT
From: Jerry Durrance <durrance@airmail.net>
Subject: UNSUBSCRIBE
Please remove me fom the list.
Please Unsubscribe-- durrance@airmail.net
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 9 Jul 2003 10:23:24 +0100
From: "John Mosby (Out&About)" <a.j.mosby@btinternet.com>
Subject: Re: Fanfic & Morals
Gee, that Mulberry bush is looking familiar....
> John--
> > Nina seems to think all fanfic is sad and immoral.
>
> I know it's vastly easier for some people to paint it that way.
> Unfortunately for you, it isn't accurate. I have said over & over that
the
> only issue I have is w/ the _unauthorized distribution_ of fanfic. That
> will continue, unless someone comes up w/ a sensible reason that genre TV
> properties are undeserving of the copyright protections automatically
> afforded other intellectual property, or until I am convinced that fanfic
> purveyors are special & so above the law & morality.
and to Carmel:
>If you can take a break from insulting me
Oh. come on, Nina. You want a great and passionate debate, that's peachy
and there are plenty of people here who are happy to engage in passionate
and extensive debate - but don't complain that people take potshots when you
regularly pepper your posts with them yourself. Part of a good debate is
having the opposite number wanting to discuss a subject. Insulting people
merely tires them and is a poor subsitute for wit (and I know you do wit
well) . All depends whether you are here to debate or provoke. If it's the
former, I'm right here. The latter gets boring after a while because people
see through it. But, hey, it's 'vastly easy to paint it that way' because
you've consistently insulted people who write fanfic without making that
important distinction clear. Many fanficers don't make a profit from their
work and may only show it to friends (rather than 'distributing' it), so -
to be clear - they're okay, right?
Carmel--
> Why not take your arguments to a
> fanfiction list and universe where the owners *do* mind??
>Are you telling me to shut up, Carmel? Why ARE you so insecure about this
issue as to get so very worked up & belligerant? It's unbecoming.
Relax--this is just a discussion.
Oh - and again with the slights. That just tends to lend weight to the idea
you like provoking rather than debating. Kinda like watching Fox News: great
if you want to throw things at smug faces, but eventually you need hard
news. I think Carmel is saying that if you care as passionately as you
obviously seem to and the posts are meant to relfect what you think rather
than *just* provoke, then why not put your money where you mouth is and
campaign, taking it to people who share your aims and could help you acheive
your target? You comment on the lack of interest I'm showing in promoting
your cause, but all I see so far is one lone agitator wearing a very loud
dress rather than someone actually willing to move forward with her ideals
as well. You complain about fanficers. You grumble about TPTB not being
clearer. But Carmel has a point. So far, we've all heard what WE should be
doing. We haven't heard what NINA is doing to make things right only .
C'mon Nina, are you suggesting the SaveDanielJackson ladies can do something
you can't?
> John--
> >>>Other than the above
> important distinction, I'd rather tend to agree with Rottie and the
official
> Highlander site>>>
>
> Note: The official site doesn't say--Go forth & fanfic. It says--Post
your
> fanfic HERE. Put it on OUR site, losers, where WE control it, it
arguably
> becomes OUR property, & YOU can't sue US if anything used officially later
> on looks like what you posted. Actually, John, it says--"The place for
> fans to collaborate on Highlander-themed stories." As in the only
> authorized place for fanfic. It also sounds like they think fans write
> their little stories together, in kindergarten fashion, which makes me
> wonder what TPTB really understand about fanfic. But, despite Carmel's
> flights of fancy, there is nothing in that to indicate DPP approve of HL
> fanfic distribution elsewhere.
Which if you read my post fully, is the very thing I go on to point out.
That it establishes they don't innately hate the idea of fanfic (as you've
suggested) and in fact encourage it. But I agreed that isn't carte blanche
to write whatever fanfic you want and where you want. However, it's hardly
the best deterrent either.
> John--
> >>> it's only a problem if people seek to profit for something they
> haven't purchased the rights for (with the mentioned parody/individual
> cartoon excepion under law) >>>
See?
>
> Like Leah's HL calendars?
Actually, that's an interesting and fair point. I honestly don't know where
I'd draw the line. Starlog has used a collection of Leah's cartoons on one
page and there's no problem. Leah sells her individual cartoons and there's
no problem. While I'd have no problem personally with a selection of
Highlander cartoons collected together, I guess there is a potential grey
area because it will make a profit using the Highlander name and it's not an
offical product. However, I might compare it to the 'Unauthorised Episode
Guide books' that are out there and are absolutely legal (and usually very
good) and get around the copyright law by not using any official photos or
press material, while still being a good read. They fit under the 'fair
comment' clause and I think 'parody' might fit that too. Leah doesn't use
any official art and all the work used is her own. I think for this
*particular* case if she merely put *unauthorised*, then she could well be
covered. (Same get-out doesn't really work for fanfic as they are extensive
works of fiction)
John
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 9 Jul 2003 07:46:47 EDT
From: Bizarro7@aol.com
Subject: Re: Fanfic & Morals
In a message dated 7/9/2003 2:00:02 AM Eastern Standard Time,
gmate@rogers.com writes:
> But really, how far does copyright actually extend in written works? If I
> wrote a story about Duncan and Richie living in the year 2112, that's
> considered copyright infringement. If I wrote a story about a mentor and
> protege named Albert Bigglesworth and Percy Jones, two men who just
> happened to have an uncanny ability of living for hundreds or even thousand
> of years and virtually mirrored the plot of "Highlander II", would that be
> considered copyright infringement?
You know, if D-P let them get away with that Lorenzo Lamas TV show THE
IMMORTAL a couple of years ago without a lawsuit, I don't think anybody's in danger
around here.
Leah
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 9 Jul 2003 07:47:42 EDT
From: Bizarro7@aol.com
Subject: Re: Fanfic & Morals
In a message dated 7/9/2003 2:24:25 AM Eastern Standard Time,
tmar@sifl.iid.co.za writes:
> Leah wrote:
> >Don't have access to the book at this moment, but I'm guessing
> >it's in the chapter named "Beauty May Be Only Skin Deep, But Chopped
> >Liver Can Get You Anywhere or Six Glorious Days on the Star Trek Set."
>
> And how scary is it that you actually remember that? <g>
>
>
Nah; Google remembers that.
Leah
------------------------------
End of HIGHLA-L Digest - 8 Jul 2003 to 9 Jul 2003 - Special issue (#2003-146)
*****************************************************************************