HIGHLA-L Digest - 1 Mar 2003 to 2 Mar 2003 (#2003-31)
Automatic digest processor (LISTSERV@lists.psu.edu)
Sun, 2 Mar 2003 22:00:01 -0500
There are 15 messages totalling 555 lines in this issue.
Topics of the day:
1. Slash? (7)
2. OT: Farscape and Stargate
3. Harry Potter meets HL
4. fanfic
5. PW on Dead Zone/HL-ish book? (3)
6. Smallville meets HL
7. HL-ish book?
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Date: Sun, 2 Mar 2003 00:01:38 -0500
From: SenseiRob@aol.com
Subject: Re: Slash?
a.j.mosby@btinternet.com writes:
> Hold on a second.
>
> If this is actually a one-sided dialogue, would this make it Hermaphroditian
> fiction?
So just what are you implying about Wendy?
?clueless (Given the features of a hermaphrodite, is this a roundabout way of setting up a "go *%$# yourself" joke?)
------------------------------
Date: Sun, 2 Mar 2003 00:18:53 -0500
From: SenseiRob@aol.com
Subject: Re: Slash?
cgliser@earthlink.net:
> Oh yeah? Well Richie's DEAD you know.
Well, we don't want him to be, so we're going to deny it ever happened.
Why?
Because we can!
But to what end?
So we can continue to write Ritchy-worship fanfic in an alternate universe.
But what's with the red shirts?
We really want to annoy the rest of HL fandom and scare the guests at Conventions. Plus, it makes us easy targets, and we can wallow in being picked on.
You only said that because Liser left us with a really poor lead in for this thread.
Yeah, it's all Liser's fault! We should really be talking about Karl T. Hermit right now, anyway.
-Rob (Then mole fore arms, Xavier's hand, and the Dread Pirate)
SenseiRob@aol.com
------------------------------
Date: Sun, 2 Mar 2003 00:49:15 EST
From: Ashton7@aol.com
Subject: OT: Farscape and Stargate
Please feel free to pass this information along to any interested parties.
I've finally managed to get all of my convention reports and photos from Best
of Both Worlds in Sydney Australia up on the website. The guests were from
Farscape: Anthony Simcoe, Jonathan Hardy, David Franklin and Lani Tupu. From
Stargate: Colin Cunningham.
There are also some fun photos for the Stargate fan to be found on the
touring link.
http://photos.ashtonpress.net/bobw.htm
Colin Cunningham has also just done a live chat with the Our Stargate Forum
and the transcript is linked from our homepage at:
http://ourstargate.com/
Annie
Welcome Home Daniel Jackson and Michael Shanks! Stargate Season 7: Seventh
Heaven! Thank you MGM, SciFi and Bridge Studios!
****************
Stargate Solutions: http://www.savedanieljackson.com
Our Stargate Discussion Forum:
http://forums.delphiforums.com/ourstargate/start
Ashton Press: http://ashtonpress.net/
Gateway, A Stargate Slash Group: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Gateway/join
------------------------------
Date: Sun, 2 Mar 2003 08:45:18 +0200
From: Marina Bailey <tmar@sifl.iid.co.za>
Subject: Re: Harry Potter meets HL
Nina wrote:
>>Oooh, burn!!
>Is _that_ your idea of calm & rational discussion?
No, dear. It's my instinctive response to what you posted. I'm
still waiting for you to post something worth discussing calmly
and rationally.
>2) You don't occupy my mind at all.
Good. Though the entire list can tell that slash obviously does.
For someone who supposedly hates it, you sure do bring it up a
lot.
- Marina.
\\ "You've heard it said that living well is ||>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> //
// the best revenge? Au contraire - living || R I C H I E >> \\
\\ forever is the best revenge." - Lacroix ||>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> //
//=====Marina Bailey====tmar@sifl.iid.co.za====|| \\
\\=============Chief Flag Waver and Defender of Richie============//
"It's Lord of the Flies in there!" - Josh; 'The West Wing'; about
the forum on his fansite.
------------------------------
Date: Sun, 2 Mar 2003 08:55:23 +0200
From: Marina Bailey <tmar@sifl.iid.co.za>
Subject: Re: Slash?
Wendy wrote:
>Is it time for us to discuss slash again?
>Damn! I have to update my calendar. I still have slash marked for mid-April.
Hey, don't blame us. Nina jumped the gun. Maybe you should go update
*her* calendar.
>Methos had the hots for Duncan.
>No. Duncan would never have done that!
[snip]
>Shut up!
>No, you shut up!
>Bitch!
>Freak!
I think that definitely covers it, Wendy. I'm saving that post for
next time. :)
>(Should we turn to the annual Cassandra debate now?)
Lisa has already done that one for us. How about... the merits of
Doctor Anne? Or whether that Templar shrine was holy ground? We
have lots of stuff to cover!
- Marina.
\\ "You've heard it said that living well is ||>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> //
// the best revenge? Au contraire - living || R I C H I E >> \\
\\ forever is the best revenge." - Lacroix ||>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> //
//=====Marina Bailey====tmar@sifl.iid.co.za====|| \\
\\=============Chief Flag Waver and Defender of Richie============//
"It's Lord of the Flies in there!" - Josh; 'The West Wing'; about
the forum on his fansite.
------------------------------
Date: Sun, 2 Mar 2003 09:01:46 +0000
From: beccaelizabeth <r.day@netcom.co.uk>
Subject: fanfic
> I'd love to hear some PTBs _honestly_ discuss this-whether they feel fanfic
> hurts them & exactly how, if slash is any different, what their opinion of
> fanfic writers is, etc.
I try and stay out of this fanfic loop because I've said what I had to say
already. But
-------
Larry Niven, foreword in N-space, Playgrounds for the mind
When every page has been read and the book has been put down, is the story over?
Some stories flow onwards through the reader's imagination. Some authors leave
playgrounds for the reader's mind.
...
Something should be left behind at the end of the story. There are characters
unkilled, and actors who never reached the stage. Esoteric technologies. Alien
ecologies. Worlds. The laws by which the universe behaves. *The playground.*
...
Hard science fiction in particular is a game played with the readers. They try
to spot my mistakes. I see mathematical treatments of the dynamics of neutron
stars, design alterations for the Ringworld, detective story outlines for Gil
'The ARM' Hamilton. I get a constant flow of letters from strangers to keep me
current on transplant technology, Bussard ramjet possibilities, black holes,
magnetic monopoles. There are songs about the Motie Engineers and Lucifer's
Hammer, sculptures of Pierson's pupeteers in every conceivable medium, and
paintings of the RIngworld.
All of this is proper use of playground equipment. A reader need not be
satisfied just to read the book. He paid his way in; he can stay as long as he
likes.
...
Writing is a collaboration with the readers. I sensed that long before I wrote
my first real collaboration. It goes like this. Somebody out there, thousands
of somebodies, are entertained by the same things I am. They like to play in
their heads, and I'm out to help them. I'm writing a dialogue between me and
the paying public.
--------
all of which I interpret, not as licence to go make money out of someone else's
work, but to go play in his playgrounds with proper credit given to the original
builder.
Lois McMaster Bujold's Vorkosigan series is about to come out as a RPG. Some
shows/films ie B5, star wars, star trek have official RPGs. To me RPG is
basically collaborative fanfic, though your definitions may vary. It is
definitely an invitation to go play in their playground.
Chris Golden, author for Buffy novels, opinion on slash is- he really, really
wants to write Buffy/Faith
Buffy creator's opinion on slash is all the relationships on Buffy are kinda
romantic, BYO subtext.
Then theres the way that culture has always been collaborative. TPTB that want
to stomp on fanfic are trying to shut down what has been the basic engine of
storytelling for probably as long as there have been stories. A story isnt
something one god like being hands down to the rest of the universe, a story is
something we tell each other. Its not an absolute set in stone finished work,
its a playground, and readers (or viewers) are part of building it.
okay, short version of the preaching over.
later
beccaelizabeth
also from N-space, one of my favourite quotes: The only universal message in
science fiction reads as follows: There are minds that think as well as we do,
or better, but differently.
------------------------------
Date: Sun, 2 Mar 2003 10:42:10 -0500
From: Becky Doland <becky@beckyjo.com>
Subject: Re: Slash?
It's so comforting to see that nothing has changed around here in the years
I've been gone! ;-)
When are we scheduled to discuss the merits of spin-offs and why Methos
would have been much more successful at it than Amanda?
Becky
------------------------------
Date: Sun, 2 Mar 2003 10:55:07 -0500
From: Ace!Miracle <ke731458@pegasus.cc.ucf.edu>
Subject: Re: Slash?
On Sun, 2 Mar 2003, Marina Bailey wrote:
> Or whether that Templar shrine was holy ground?
The Templar shrine was holy ground. It even said so in the opening from
the 4th season ("holy ground his only refuge.")
That doesn't mean anything. The opening scene was constructed by techs
from clips that matched words, not context.
Nuh-uh.
Uh-huh.
It's holy ground. There's a big crucifix on the wall.
So? I have a big crucifix on my wall at home. My house isn't holy ground.
If the crucifix was blessed by a priest, then your house is holy ground.
If you carry it around with you, does that mean your always on holy
ground?
If a Hindu person is standing next to a cow, does that mean they're on
holy ground?
Shutup you freak.
What do cows have to do with anything?
Cows are sacred in Hindu mythology, you moron. Don't you know anything
about other religions, or are you too narrow-minded to bother?
Pseudo intellectual bitch.
You forgot the hyphen.
--Miracle
-------------------------------------------------------------------------
"They say the biggest problem in the world is apathy. But really, who
cares about that?" --Jeremy Lloyd, Laugh-In
-------------------------------------------------------------------------
Minor Major Miracle: Time Lady, Jedi Knight, Recently Tenured Grad Student
I helped Patrick McGoohan escape...
------------------------------
Date: Sun, 2 Mar 2003 11:22:35 -0500
From: Elaine Nicol <ElaineN@compuserve.com>
Subject: Re: Slash?
>> Wendy(Should we turn to the annual Cassandra debate now? <<
Think that about sums it all up.<G>
I don't normally get into these discussions, but this time I'm going to
throw in my tuppence worth.
I don't like Slash - I don't read it. I don't write it. I don't write
any kind of erotic fanfic - I like adventures, mysteries, and character
dilemmas - that's what I read and write.
Other people like Slash let them write it - let them read it.
I do not force my fanfic on them, so they should do the same.
I know that any fanfic I write is illegal so I give it a low profile. I
use it for pleasure and to practise my writing skills. I write other
things with my own characters and plots.
I know many people who write fanfic for exactly the same reason - some of
them even write slash or erotic fiction, and I understand they are good at
it.
>> Nina wrote:
I'd love to hear some PTBs _honestly_ discuss this-whether they feel
fanfic hurts them & exactly how, <<
Well I think a number are on record as saying exactly that - The legal
aspect of copyright that to knowingly let someone use your copyright
material is to give up your copyright. That alone is enough for them to
have to ignore it at the very least. So any fan who forces it on them
really is hurting everyone who just does it for pleasure. As long as it's
under the radar it's okay.
Nina wrote:
>> Unfortunately, I believe con guests routinely forbid questions about
fanfic/slash. Wonder why that is? <<
Well I can confirm that I've had guests make this request - not saying who
or what or even what show, remember I've run events involved with all sorts
of shows.
I've also had guests ask that we not allow personal questions about their
relationships, about their families etc etc.
I often ask guests if there is any topic they'd rather avoid if there is
anything they don't wish to do.
We usually ban the hug procession because that's exactly what happens, and
the Q and A turns into a handful of people getting hugs, instead of the
whole audience getting to spend some time with the guest.
This was also the reason at a recent event we banned photos and autographs
at the cocktail party - in order to allow everyone to have relaxing time.
We eventually had to throw the guests out.
Even a guest you are paying to make an appearance has a right to say what
they will and won't do. I have spoken with actors who don't mind the
fanfic be it slash or not, I have equally spoken to some who are horrified
by slash. Actors are people too, with the same feelings as the rest of
us.
I just think we all need to respect each other. Go ahead write your
fanfic - slash - erotic or whatever, but don't force it on anyone
particularly the people who's originated the character or who brought that
character to life.
Elaine.
------------------------------
Date: Sun, 2 Mar 2003 11:48:27 -0800
From: Lynn <lloschin@sprynet.com>
Subject: Re: Slash?
From: "Elaine Nicol" <ElaineN@compuserve.com>
> The legal
> aspect of copyright that to knowingly let someone use your copyright
> material is to give up your copyright.
Except that in the US (at least) it's not. You can allow someone else to
use your copyright for free, or give them a license for a penny a year, all
without losing your own copyright.
Ignorning a violation of a *trademark* can cause you to lose the exclusive
rights to a trademark. This is well-settled US law. Never have I seen the
same principle applied to copyright. I've seen fans make this statement for
years and I've asked repeatedly for someone to cite me a single case that
actually says this, and nobody ever has.
Although they are both intellectual property rights, copyright and trademark
are really very different, with different purposes and rules, and just
because something applies to trademark law, it doesn't mean it applies to
copyright law.
Lynn
------------------------------
Date: Sun, 2 Mar 2003 15:43:04 -0500
From: Heidi <heidi@apocalypse.org>
Subject: PW on Dead Zone/HL-ish book?
Incase anyone didn't know, Peter Wingfield is on The Dead Zone
tonight, 10pm eastern, USA network. The show also gets rerun
several times later in the week on USA and Scifi. From the
commercial I saw today he seems to be playing a pilot.
And on an unrelated note, quite awhile ago I remember reading
something, I think on highla-l, about a book that the author
seemed to be a HL fan based on the fact that several of the
character names in the book were names used in HL. Does that
sound familiar to anyone, if so do you remember the author or
title? I didn't pay much attention to the info at the time since
I wasn't interested in it, but I now want to buy it for someone
and don't remember the details. So any pointers?
=}{=
(heidi@apocalypse.org)
------------------------------
Date: Sun, 2 Mar 2003 18:15:52 EST
From: Bschep@aol.com
Subject: Re: Smallville meets HL
OK... I finally saw the Smallville episode with Christopher Reeves....
ohmygosh, it IS a quickening, ZK... and that whole "You will be like a god to
them" --- Who knew that the Highlander lore: "in the end, there can only be
one" meant Clark Kent!
<G>
Barb
------------------------------
Date: Sun, 2 Mar 2003 15:50:31 -0800
From: mama bear <parisrose_2@yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: PW on Dead Zone/HL-ish book?
There have been several which could meet this criteria - Kate Elliot's Prince of Dogs and others in that series have characters with HL names and characteristics. The romance writers (at least some) openly profess their appreciation of HL and the image of DM. Karen Moning has built a whole series on her take on a highland clan and a twist on immortality. She uses several familiar names in her 5 book series. On her web site she openly credits HL, and has pix of AP . Diana Galdbaron in her Outlander series, particularly the last 2 books has references to characters that are very close or are of familiar names. Gives me a giggle every time i find a new reference (waving at t'lynne!)
Good luck with your hunt.....Parisrose
And on an unrelated note, quite awhile ago I remember reading
something, I think on highla-l, about a book that the author
seemed to be a HL fan based on the fact that several of the
character names in the book were names used in HL. Does that
sound familiar to anyone, if so do you remember the author or
title? I didn't pay much attention to the info at the time since
I wasn't interested in it, but I now want to buy it for someone
and don't remember the details. So any pointers?
=}{=
(heidi@apocalypse.org)
---------------------------------
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------------------------------
Date: Sun, 2 Mar 2003 15:57:55 -0800
From: Jen <Data@cyberg8t.com>
Subject: Re: PW on Dead Zone/HL-ish book?
Oooh, Diana Gabaldon!! :-D I looove her series. Yes, there is in fact
someone named Duncan MacLeod running around in her last book. *chuckle*
Jen
----- Original Message -----
From: "mama bear" <parisrose_2@yahoo.com>
To: <HIGHLA-L@LISTS.PSU.EDU>
Sent: Sunday, March 02, 2003 3:50 PM
Subject: Re: PW on Dead Zone/HL-ish book?
> Diana Galdbaron in her Outlander series, particularly the last 2 books
has references to characters that are very close or are of familiar names.
>Gives me a giggle every time i find a new reference (waving at t'lynne!)
>
>
------------------------------
Date: Sun, 2 Mar 2003 20:35:41 -0500
From: Heidi <heidi@apocalypse.org>
Subject: Re: HL-ish book?
From: mama bear <parisrose_2@yahoo.com>
[..] Kate Elliot's Prince of Dogs and others in that series have
characters with HL names and characteristics. [..] Karen Moning has
built a whole series on her take on a highland clan and a twist on
immortality. She uses several familiar names in her 5 book series.
Thanks for the info I'll have to see what I can find. (and might
even grab one for myself if they sound interesting.)
Diana Galdbaron in her Outlander series, particularly the last 2
books has references to characters that are very close or are of
familiar names.
I know the one I had heard about before wasn't one of hers since
unlike the other authors you mentioned, I've heard of her. I do
have one of her books but got bored and never did finish it. It
was a few years ago so don't remember much about it at this point.
=}{=
(heidi@apocalypse.org)
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End of HIGHLA-L Digest - 1 Mar 2003 to 2 Mar 2003 (#2003-31)
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