HIGHLA-L Digest - 13 Apr 2002 to 14 Apr 2002 (#2002-47)
Automatic digest processor (LISTSERV@lists.psu.edu)
Sun, 14 Apr 2002 22:00:01 -0400
There are 9 messages totalling 489 lines in this issue.
Topics of the day:
1. Highlander the musical (7)
2. New Highlander dvd
3. Signed scripts (Pretender)
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Date: Sat, 13 Apr 2002 22:15:43 EDT
From: Ashton7@aol.com
Subject: Re: Highlander the musical
In a message dated 4/13/02 3:58:01 PM Eastern Daylight Time,
tmar@sifl.iid.co.za writes:
<< But what I'm wondering is, why would Sci-Fi want changes made that
seem to make the show *less* science fiction-y? (I heard that season 6
is going to be more Earth-bound.) That makes no sense. Please correct
me if I'm wrong. >>
You know, the interesting thing is that SCIFI Channel has had some recent
news conferences where they've been touting the fact that they are changing
their format and moving away from "science fiction." Yeah, you heard me
right. I'll have to dig up the URLs so you folks can read the news for
yourself. In fact, JMS has recently been online saying that SCIFI Channel has
apparently decided against making a series out of The Legend of the Rangers
(as had originally been planned) because they want to do less "space" shows.
Why they will continue to call themselves the SCIFI Channel is anybody's
guess. ;-)
As to who's lying about what regarding changes asked for on Stargate...
Things are being said by lots of different people and they don't match up.
So, on another issue, I have to disagree with John. I DO think there is a
matter of "conduct" at issue with the Stargate producers and MGM just as
there is with DPP. I can say that I had it straight from the horse's mouth at
SCIFI Channel (so to speak) that SCIFI Channel wanted Shanks to stay. Was I
told the truth? :::shrugging::: Who knows? I don't believe any of them
anymore. I think they will say whatever they need to say. In fact, in the
same conversation, I was told (and I quote): "The studios don't want to look
bad."
Annie
"Unless the last two years have been a wacky, wacky dream, I am a member of
SG-1." -- Dr. Daniel Jackson
****************
Save Daniel Jackson: http://www.savedanieljackson.com
Ashton Press: http://ashtonpress.ma-at.net/
Fan Fiction: http://members.aol.com/pelkiepet/stories.htm
Fanzines: http://ashtonpress.ma-at.net/zines.htm
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------------------------------
Date: Sat, 13 Apr 2002 21:44:19 -0700
From: Sherri C <sherric@empnet.com>
Subject: New Highlander dvd
Thank God for small favors. :) At last, a dvd with a clear and exquisite
soundtrack!!!!!!!!! and, a very much superior video transfer, no artefacts
or pixelation!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
I love Anchor Bay. :) I also love my friend who gave me the dvd for my
birthday!!
Lurker Supreme,
Sherri sherric@empnet.com
"...freedom is not free, for in times of darkness, in the fires of war,
freedom is forged of iron, iron oft quenched by the blood of the innocent,
a terrible price to pay. Yet to let evil rule is even more costly." (from
"Into the Fire" by Dennis L McKiernan)
------------------------------
Date: Sat, 13 Apr 2002 18:54:16 -1000
From: MacWestie <mac.westie@verizon.net>
Subject: Re: Highlander the musical
Annie--
> I'll have to dig up the URLs so you folks can read the news for
> yourself.
Great. Do that.
>In fact, JMS has recently been online saying that SCIFI Channel has
> apparently decided against making a series out of The Legend of the
Rangers
> (as had originally been planned) because they want to do less "space"
shows.
Sci-Fi may or may not be fine-tuning their content. But _anyone_ would pass
on Rangers--it reeked! JMS should be ashamed of doing that to B5 (though
I'm sure he has some DPP-like whiny excuse for tanking the franchise).
Nina
mac.westie@verizon.net
------------------------------
Date: Sun, 14 Apr 2002 09:02:49 +0200
From: Marina Bailey <tmar@sifl.iid.co.za>
Subject: Re: Highlander the musical
Nina (spoke to me; I may faint! <g> Now, if we can only stay away from
the subject of fanfic, we should be okay...) wrote:
>Well, that's drama for you. And so many actors say they LOVE a big death
>scene, so....
And it makes sense if it's a play or some tragic movie. But in TV?
Don't they care about their character, their fans? And we do know
that Stan certainly didn't want a death scene.
>But, you'd been talking about RR, so I was brought up short by the above.
>Obviously RR's demise wasn't happy, but I think it was infinitely _fitting_,
>given the issues HL handled & the angst-ridden nature of the show.
I guess I can agree there. It only makes Duncan a more tragic figure,
too. BUT - I wonder if people would have been so blase' about it if
it had been Methos who had died.
>it was inevitable. TPTB had been foreshadowing RR's death (by DM's sword
>even) since ep #1; now, _that_ early bit in The Gathering may have been a
>coincidence or it may have just subconsciously started the writers down the
>path to Archangel, but later eps (Shadows & Something Wicked especially)
>were far from subtle--RR was doomed (as was DM, as unwilling wielder of his
>fate).
I don't think it was foreshadowing. I think we are reading that into
it in hindsight. (Though there's nothing wrong with that; I like
looking at completed TV series as coherent wholes.) That said, no fan
wants their favourite character to die. And yet, I prefer a character
to die than to be left alive and replaced. Because if a character dies,
one can mourn and move on (to watching the rest of the show - I don't
mean mourn and forget). But leaving a character alive (Due South is
the latest best example) only tortures the fans by giving them false
hope ("Ray Vecchio will be in some 3rd season episodes" "Actually, we
didn't mean in many" "Only two, sorry" "We never said otherwise" etc)
and creating splits in fandom. Luckily we don't have that in HL fandom.
And, you know, Nina, however much we on this list fight and argue, we
are united by our love of the show. We even (occasionally) agree on
certain aspects. Due South fandom doesn't have that to any degree. Nor
does Beauty and the Beast fandom. We are lucky.
- Marina. (Even grateful for the fights, because they liven up the
list.)
\\ "And we are scatterlings of Africa on a ||>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> //
// journey to the stars. Far below we leave || R I C H I E >> \\
\\ forever dreams of what we were." - Juluka ||>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> //
//====Marina Bailey====tmar@sifl.iid.co.za====|| \\
\\============Chief Flag Waver and Defender of Richie============//
On fandom: I probably need psychiatric help, but it's a lovely
madness and I don't want to be cured.
------------------------------
Date: Sun, 14 Apr 2002 09:38:42 +0100
From: "John Mosby (B)" <a.j.mosby@btinternet.com>
Subject: Re: Highlander the musical
> As to who's lying about what regarding changes asked for on Stargate...
> Things are being said by lots of different people and they don't match up.
> So, on another issue, I have to disagree with John. I DO think there is a
> matter of "conduct" at issue with the Stargate producers and MGM just as
> there is with DPP. I can say that I had it straight from the horse's mouth
at
> SCIFI Channel (so to speak) that SCIFI Channel wanted Shanks to stay. Was
I
> told the truth? :::shrugging::: Who knows? I don't believe any of them
> anymore. I think they will say whatever they need to say. In fact, in the
> same conversation, I was told (and I quote): "The studios don't want to
look
> bad."
>
> Annie
I think you misunderstood some of what I said. To the best of my knowledge
(and on this point I do have some) Sci-Fi were not remotely involved in
Shanks leaving the show, only in asking for certain changes. MS's departure
was a situation that came to a head early in Season 5 when both he and the
Show's producers could not agree on the direction of the character. I think
most people know the stance of both MS and Brad Wright on this ( but, hey,
if not - and even if you do - buy Impact!!!!) but it is a different issue
than the Sci-Fi sale.
Shanks and the producers came to their final decision before the show was
sold to Sci-Fi. Indeed up until VERY late in the season, everyone believed
that it would be the final season of the show. I believe the fate of
Stargate SG-1 was known before Meridian, but that it was pretty much down to
the wire.
I'm sure Sci-Fi would have 'wanted' Daniel / Shanks if he had still been
around, but by that point the behind the scenes decisions and situations
made were pretty irreversiblly defined by both parties - and certainly
comments by both sides made it unlikley that a permenant reunion was
feasible. Sci-Fi have a paid-for seat at the table, but I'm not sure that if
they came in and said "Oh, and we want Shanks back on the team" that would
have been do-able practically. They are one source of finance and have some
influence, not total. However, with MS returning for one (possibly two)
episodes at least, it does look as if everyone involved have come to
certain compromises.
John
------------------------------
Date: Sun, 14 Apr 2002 06:56:09 EDT
From: Ashton7@aol.com
Subject: Re: Highlander the musical
In a message dated 4/14/02 4:38:26 AM Eastern Daylight Time,
a.j.mosby@btinternet.com writes:
<< Shanks and the producers came to their final decision before the show was
sold to Sci-Fi. Indeed up until VERY late in the season, everyone believed
that it would be the final season of the show. I believe the fate of
Stargate SG-1 was known before Meridian, but that it was pretty much down to
the wire. >>
This is going wildly off-topic... but this statement is very contrary to
public statements made by producers of the show who adamantly maintain that
Shanks' decision to leave was made after the 6th season was a done deal. (And
this in response to the fans who, quite rightly, were angry that they had
campaigned for a 6th season quite heavily at the request of MGM's Hank Cohen
and Richard Dean Anderson and others and felt a little betrayed that they
hadn't been told they were campaigning for a show quite different---and
lacking a certain character--than they thought they were campaigning for.) In
that respect, again, it *is* similar to HL wherein some, if not many, fans
have felt "betrayed" by DPP at times.
Actually, although it is true that Shanks was questioning the role of his
character beginning early in Season 4, as late as July of last year, he was
still planning to return and it was only in the middle of filming season 5
that he made his decision to leave. This according to both Shanks and Brad
Wright *and* various people who spoke to him in person *in* July of 2001
(when he said he was planning to return for the 6th season and hoped to maybe
direct again). So, for once, the producers are actually telling a version of
the truth. They *didn't* know he was going to leave when the 6th season was
announced (that was as early as June... because when the new season debuted
on Showtime, it was already known there would be a 6th one on another
network).
Annie
"Bottom line: If you're not telling good stories, people are going to tune
out, and they'll see right through the sham." -- Richard Dean Anderson 'The
Hollywood Reporter'
****************
Save Daniel Jackson: http://www.savedanieljackson.com
Ashton Press: http://ashtonpress.ma-at.net/
Fan Fiction: http://members.aol.com/pelkiepet/stories.htm
Fanzines: http://ashtonpress.ma-at.net/zines.htm
Gateway, A Stargate Slash Discussion/Fiction Group:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Gateway/join
Annie
"Unless the last two years have been a wacky, wacky dream, I am a member of
SG-1." -- Dr. Daniel Jackson
****************
Save Daniel Jackson: http://www.savedanieljackson.com
Ashton Press: http://ashtonpress.ma-at.net/
Fan Fiction: http://members.aol.com/pelkiepet/stories.htm
Fanzines: http://ashtonpress.ma-at.net/zines.htm
Gateway, A Stargate Slash Discussion/Fiction Group:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Gateway/join
------------------------------
Date: Sun, 14 Apr 2002 08:34:37 EDT
From: Ashton7@aol.com
Subject: Re: Highlander the musical
In a message dated 4/13/02 2:04:09 PM Eastern Daylight Time,
a.j.mosby@btinternet.com writes:
<< Methos? The world's oldest man?Gee, he looks kinda geeky! I know students
like him...but with less beer. Wish we still had
Darius. He was sooooo much better, likeable and honourable. >>
But that wasn't the response to Methos' initial appearance. At least not for
me and not for many others I know. The response was that he was an intriguing
character that I'd very much like to see again... and I was happy when he
*did* turn up again and wanted to know more about him. And he *never* struck
me as any kind of a "replacement" for Darius. The character was introduced
well, played by a likeable actor, and most importantly *written* well.
First impressions are always the most important. Yes, characters *will* be
judged from the moment they first appear. And if they are well-written, the
audience will want to see more of them... even if they are "villains."
Whether or not a character is a "good" guy or a "bad" guy is irrelevant as to
whether or not the audience will find him/her "interesting."
And, yes, I liked Richie from the beginning, too... although I'm probably not
a good judge of that particular character's first appearance since the first
time I saw *him* was actually a third season episode (since that's when I
became a fan of the show). By the time I saw the first episode of the series,
I was already a fan. And Richie was actually my favorite character for the
longest time... until the middle of the 4th season, in fact, when I finally
became more of a Methos fan. I think I would have remained a much bigger
Richie fan if his role in the series hadn't been so reduced over the years. I
hated that they did that. And, yes, I know a good part of it was because of
changing legalities. Doesn't change the fact that Richie was originally in
every episode of the series and very much part of Duncan's "family" and his
role was gradually reduced out of existence.
Annie
"Unless the last two years have been a wacky, wacky dream, I am a member of
SG-1." -- Dr. Daniel Jackson
****************
Save Daniel Jackson: http://www.savedanieljackson.com
Ashton Press: http://ashtonpress.ma-at.net/
Fan Fiction: http://members.aol.com/pelkiepet/stories.htm
Fanzines: http://ashtonpress.ma-at.net/zines.htm
Gateway, A Stargate Slash Discussion/Fiction Group:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Gateway/join
------------------------------
Date: Sun, 14 Apr 2002 14:46:50 +0100
From: "John Mosby (B)" <a.j.mosby@btinternet.com>
Subject: Re: Highlander the musical
Again, my perception of what I've been told by both Shanks, Wright and
others is that though a Season Six was being sought, it certainly wasn't a
done deal when Shanks/SG-1 were set to part ways (though the filming of his
final eps were still to do). I suppose it depends where in the process
someone was. Further up the chain, people probably knew further in advance
than those on the set. Requests to campaign for a Season Six seem
understandable...but I'm guessing when that request was made, neither
Shanks's departure or the Sci-Fi deal were cast in stone.
My understanding was that Shanks wasn't happy with his lot and made that
clear (publically and personally)- also that he would probably leave when
his contract ran out. TPTB made it clear that in an ideal world they wanted
him to stay, but weren't willing/able to accomodate all his wishes. When
this couldn't be resolved to the satisfaction of both parties it was
formally agreed to part ways. You can read that as 'did he jump or was he
pushed' depending on your opinion of the opinions offered by both parties.
Certainly, at the very best, the Sci-Fi deal and Shank's formal notice took
place around the same time as around mid-season there was still no Sci-Fi
deal.
Now, going back to Highlander -as this is the Highlander List - I believe
Stan Kirsch wasn't overtly happy with being written out, but that it wasn't
the same situation as Shanks. By this time Richie was essentially a
recurring character rather than in every episode. Like Shanks, he returned
to film more material, but on more relaxed terms. Since then he has admitted
that he was disappointed to being written out, but there was no permenant
ill-feelings. This isn't the same situation as Shanks who has very
publically criticised TPTB and their decisions.
Now, stating the obvious...whether Shanks's comments were right or not,
criticising and publically dissing your employers is NEVER going to get you
re-hired. In fact it pretty much scuppers any deal at all. Same things
happened with Jeff Pruitt on Buffy and John Rhys Davies on Sliders. Their
careers endure, but they were never invited back. Given this is the final
series of Stargate, no letter writing campaign is going to get Shanks
re-instated. Best case: It'll let TPTB know you dislike a planned direction.
Shanks has said his piece, so has Wright. The fact that Shanks is back for
one episode (maybe two) is pretty amazing, whoever has the moral higher
ground. More seems very unlikely.
Professionally, if they are both wise, both will consider the matter as
unfortunate for all concerned and learn from it.
John
----- Original Message -----
From: <Ashton7@aol.com>
To: <HIGHLA-L@LISTS.PSU.EDU>
Sent: Sunday, April 14, 2002 11:56 AM
Subject: Re: [HL] Highlander the musical
> In a message dated 4/14/02 4:38:26 AM Eastern Daylight Time,
> a.j.mosby@btinternet.com writes:
>
> << Shanks and the producers came to their final decision before the show
was
> sold to Sci-Fi. Indeed up until VERY late in the season, everyone
believed
> that it would be the final season of the show. I believe the fate of
> Stargate SG-1 was known before Meridian, but that it was pretty much down
to
> the wire. >>
>
> This is going wildly off-topic... but this statement is very contrary to
> public statements made by producers of the show who adamantly maintain
that
> Shanks' decision to leave was made after the 6th season was a done deal.
(And
> this in response to the fans who, quite rightly, were angry that they had
> campaigned for a 6th season quite heavily at the request of MGM's Hank
Cohen
> and Richard Dean Anderson and others and felt a little betrayed that they
> hadn't been told they were campaigning for a show quite different---and
> lacking a certain character--than they thought they were campaigning for.)
In
> that respect, again, it *is* similar to HL wherein some, if not many, fans
> have felt "betrayed" by DPP at times.
>
> Actually, although it is true that Shanks was questioning the role of his
> character beginning early in Season 4, as late as July of last year, he
was
> still planning to return and it was only in the middle of filming season 5
> that he made his decision to leave. This according to both Shanks and Brad
> Wright *and* various people who spoke to him in person *in* July of 2001
> (when he said he was planning to return for the 6th season and hoped to
maybe
> direct again). So, for once, the producers are actually telling a version
of
> the truth. They *didn't* know he was going to leave when the 6th season
was
> announced (that was as early as June... because when the new season
debuted
> on Showtime, it was already known there would be a 6th one on another
> network).
>
> Annie
>
> "Bottom line: If you're not telling good stories, people are going to tune
> out, and they'll see right through the sham." -- Richard Dean Anderson
'The
> Hollywood Reporter'
> ****************
> Save Daniel Jackson: http://www.savedanieljackson.com
> Ashton Press: http://ashtonpress.ma-at.net/
> Fan Fiction: http://members.aol.com/pelkiepet/stories.htm
> Fanzines: http://ashtonpress.ma-at.net/zines.htm
> Gateway, A Stargate Slash Discussion/Fiction Group:
> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Gateway/join
>
> Annie
>
> "Unless the last two years have been a wacky, wacky dream, I am a member
of
> SG-1." -- Dr. Daniel Jackson
> ****************
> Save Daniel Jackson: http://www.savedanieljackson.com
> Ashton Press: http://ashtonpress.ma-at.net/
> Fan Fiction: http://members.aol.com/pelkiepet/stories.htm
> Fanzines: http://ashtonpress.ma-at.net/zines.htm
> Gateway, A Stargate Slash Discussion/Fiction Group:
> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Gateway/join
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 15 Apr 2002 00:56:21 +0100
From: "John Mosby (B)" <a.j.mosby@btinternet.com>
Subject: Signed scripts (Pretender)
I know there are several Pretender fans out there! A friend recently =
put signed finale scripts up on eBay and also one for Profiler.=20
Here are the links if anyone is interested.... (they finish tomorow)
http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=3D1529820772=20
http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=3D1529817999=20
:V)=20
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End of HIGHLA-L Digest - 13 Apr 2002 to 14 Apr 2002 (#2002-47)
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