HIGHLA-L Digest - 9 Jul 2001 to 10 Jul 2001 - Special issue
Automatic digest processor (LISTSERV@LISTS.PSU.EDU)
Tue, 10 Jul 2001 04:44:08 -0400
There are 13 messages totalling 867 lines in this issue.
Topics in this special issue:
1. Reunion
2. OT: Roger Daltry on Witchblade
3. ATTN: All Fan Fic writers (Part 1)
4. AP as Bond?
5. ATTN: All Fan Fic writers (Part 2)
6. ATTN: All Fan Fic writers (Part 3)
7. ATTN: All Fan Fic writers (3)
8. OT:My Site
9. O/T: List mommy's e-mail address?
10. O/T List Mommy's e-mail address...
11. further OT..was O/T: List mommy's e-mail address?
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Date: Mon, 9 Jul 2001 22:37:08 EDT
From: Bizarro7@aol.com
Subject: Re: Reunion
In a message dated 7/9/01 8:20:21 AM Eastern Daylight Time,
diamonique@earthlink.net writes:
<< I'm still hoping to be there, but nothing's definite yet. Have the
airlines come up with a way to fly people around for free yet? <eg> >>
The last I checked, roundtrip airfares to the West Coast were all of $225.00
on many airlines....from the East Coast. Not kidding! Do a bit of digging
around; some routes are apparently dirt cheap right now.
Leah CWPack
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 9 Jul 2001 19:44:27 -0500
From: Jen <data@cyberg8t.com>
Subject: Re: OT: Roger Daltry on Witchblade
*boo and hisses at TNT and mumbles about how they ruined Crusade* Though, I am glad to
see that Witchblade finally has a home there after more than a year.
Jen
Lurker Girl
Carrie V. Key wrote:
>
> > Being on TNT... I always forget it is on but in this weeks EW mag it says
> that
> > Roger is guesting this Tuesday at 9PM EST
> >
> > Thought I would share
> >
> > Lora
>
> Yeah! A reason to watch again! I've been trying to follow this show, but
> it's hard being a hard core fan of the comic. But it has it's moments and
> seeing Roger on it will make it worthwhile tuning in! Thanks!
>
> ---
> Carrie Key
> reeana1@home.com
> vatazes@home.com
> http://members.home.net/reeana1/my_domain.htm
> http://members.home.net/vatazes/welcome.htm
> http://www.angelfire.com/celeb2/hornygurlz/index.htm
> LadyReeana, Ana Vatazes, Javina Jinn,
> PWFC, OFEB, QJEB, Clan of the Eternally Clueless,
> Proud Owner of 'Oasis Bathing Ardeth' Clone #1
> "Tas! You Doorknob!" Flint Fireforge, Dragonlance
> "I came, I saw, I broke a hip." Johnny Bravo
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 9 Jul 2001 23:14:54 EDT
From: Bizarro7@aol.com
Subject: Re: ATTN: All Fan Fic writers (Part 1)
Pay no mind, reeana. Fanfic of *every* flavor has been around for many, many
years and will continue to be around despite the opposing tastes of some who
feel theirs must be the final word on the subject. I find this especially
amusing when they hint of dire consequences for when the mundane public
*finds out* about this terrible, awful, invasive, filthy stuff. The truth is
almost inevitably anticlimactic when they do. I give you a couple of perfect
recent examples, the first from The London Times:
> SATURDAY JULY 07 2001
>
> And now, ladies, just for yourselves . . .
> When Harry met Garry
> HANNAH BETTS
> Those crazy cats who make up the LSE Darwinist collective have
> just published a rather racy little number on a form of fiction that
> will be new to all but the most excitable literary connoisseur. The
> book, Warrior Lovers, by Catherine Salmon and Donald
> Symons, is an evolutionary take on slash, an erotic genre written
> by women for women in which girls get their kicks in the depiction
> of two stalwartly heterosexual men enjoying a sudden conversion
> and equally stalwartly getting it on. As an added kink these men
> must be part of an established double act - Starsky/Hutch,
> Holmes/Watson, Lewis/Morse, Dr Who and presumably any one
> from a galaxy full of possibilities.
>
> Like any self-respecting form of sexual exotica, slash began in the
> Seventies and flourishes on the Internet. It sprang from the fevered
> imaginations of Star Trek fans who asked themselves what Kirk
> and Spock got to doing when they weren't spreading
> interplanetary concord and decided it must be each other. Its
> name derives from the punctuation mark that holds our heroes so
> near and yet so far, the tantalising boundary that their love - and
> various other parts - must dare to overcome.
>
> Unusually for the realm of pornography, it's really rather good.
> When girls are running the show there's none of that "I've come to
> read the meter, so let's do the business" narrative void that male
> porn tends to fall into. Slash has inventive plots and established
> sub-genres, such as the drabble, a slash of exactly 100 words, or
> an HHJJ, or happy happy joy joy story. The sites are friendly and
> well organised and feature cluckily maternal exhortations from
> women with names such as "Aimee" and "Belynda" admonishing
> minors and those not into male on male relations, to "Shoo, shoo
> away!" Theories as to why this form of writing should hold an
> appeal for the ladies are many and various.
>
> The Darwinist take is that women don't have to worry about the
> future of the relationship. In their dealings with women, men are
> always on the lookout for a younger model, or so the argument
> goes, but in a union with a man this evolutionary pressure is off.
> The romance can thus be of the enduring kind that women are
> programmed to wish upon themselves.
>
> For my money, the answer is that, just as many men have a
> penchant for a bit of sapphic action, so heterosexual women find
> themselves enchanted by a story in which there are not one but
> two male bodies to get their teeth into. If this kind of thing lights
> a
> girl's candle, then she has two torsos over which to become
> inflamed.
>
> Whatever the secret of slash's appeal, any man pondering that
> immortal chestnut "what do women want?" should certainly take a
> look. Given the notorious trickiness of capturing the heart of the
> female electorate, politicians in particular are encouraged to slash
> up their acts.
>
> Labour must move now to ensure that Mr Portillo does not corner
> the market in this strategic new genre. The relationship it can offer
> a voracious public is as complex as it is compelling - moving,
> turbulent, impassioned - an enduring alliance in which intrigue
> and ambition are mixed with power and iron will. Ladies, I give
> you Brown/Blair.
>
> Scene 1, Granita. Blair wears chinos and the softest of
> chambray shirts. Brown is dominant in pinstripe. It is the
> first occasion the two have sat opposite each other for some
> time.
>
> Blair breaks the silence. "Remember?" he asks the man
> who has been both brother and adversary, Cain to his Abel.
> "Remember that night in `94?" A wry smile crosses the
> Chancellor's lips. "Tony, how could I forget?" For a moment
> the two men are lost, each in their separate thoughts, before
> Blair continues.
>
> "I brought you here tonight, Gordon, because I want you.
> Not want you in my Cabinet want you; not want you to
> succeed me want you; and not want you like I want Cherie."
> Brown's gaze flickers and his hand moves instinctively to
> his mouth and the nail-biting that is never far away. The
> Prime Minister seizes this errant hand and . . . well, you get
> the general idea.
>
> All it needs is a bit of chemistry, the odd spot of tension.
> Just a discreet hint that beneath these virile Whitehall
> breasts beat potential homo-erotic hearts. Blair might whisk
> a stray hair from Gordy's shoulder or offer to carry his
> briefcase. Brown might mix the PM a drink and supply an
> after-Cabinet massage.
>
> All that is wanted is the merest sniff of slash and all British
> womanhood will be transfixed on the really new Labour
> that's on offer. After all, the honeymoon is over and there's
> a long hot summer ahead. Time to put aside the spinning
> and concentrate on some slashing.
>
> END
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 9 Jul 2001 23:19:47 -0400
From: Aimer <aimer@warewolf.net>
Subject: Re: AP as Bond?
PB was quoted as saying the next 007 movie would be his last. personally,
I'd rather see AP....though John Taylor is hot and all, I don't want
something interferring with Duran Duran and considering the Bond fan that
he is, that's exactly what it would do.-Aimer
At 12:16 PM 7/9/01 -0700, you wrote:
>Actually there have been rumors flying around these past couple
>months about the Bond role - I'm not sure why. AP would make a decent
>Bond, but IMHO PB is doing very well w/the role. And I don't think AP
>is 'locked' into any kind of deal w/HL.
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 9 Jul 2001 23:19:44 EDT
From: Bizarro7@aol.com
Subject: Re: ATTN: All Fan Fic writers (Part 2)
(Let me add at this point that I do not necessarily subscribe or agree to the
theories advanced about the subject in these transcripts; I'm just posting
them to show how very mainstream the whole thing already is, and neither the
world nor fandom has ended, nor are the pitchforks and torches being
prepared.)
Transcript of interview with Catherine Salmon, 'Woman's Hour' broadcast, 18th
June 2001
Interviewer: ... part of a screen pairing: Starsky-slash-Hutch,
Kirk-slash-Spock,
Skywalker-slash-Solo.
Slash fiction is examined in a new book on how evolution affects female
sexuality, so-written by Catherine Salmon in the 'Darwinism Today' series.
So, Catherine, what is the appeal of slash fiction?
Catherine Salmon: Well, I think there are a lot of things that are appealing
about
it; for one
thing, in a lot of ways it's like a regular romance novel - that's very
appealing to women, it's a genre that's designed to appeal to women. And many
of
the things that are present in regular romance novels are present in slash; so
that really the story is about two people coming to grips and finding this
relationship together, finding their one true love. And it just happens that
in
the case of a slash story it's two men finding their one true love.
I: You see, to me, the absolute essence of a romance is boy-meets-girl!
CS: Sure, and I think that there are a couple of things in particular about
slash that can make this particular type of relationship more appealing; not
necessarily to all women, but certainly to a small group of women. And one of
the big things, one of the main things about romance novels is that there is a
conflict, something that separates the hero and the heroine of the story, and
they have to get past that conflict. And their getting past that conflict
proves
their love for each other - that's part of the whole point.
I: Boy-meets-girl, boy-loses-girl, boy-gets-girl.
CS: Exactly. And in slash the barriers that they have to get past to come to
this mutual recognition of their love for each other are more intense than any
that you could have in a heterosexual romance; because in the end, when you
pick
up the romance - it's, a man falls in love with a woman, you expect them to
end
up together. And nobody really thinks that the conflict is going to be
insurmountable. But ins a slash, you have two heterosexual men who have been
best friends for years, somehow coming to this realization that they love each
other, and despite the fact that they are sexually attracted in general to
women, they love each other so much that that is what becomes of the
relationship, that it becomes sexual from that point. So that the angst factor
in the story is much more intense in a slash story.
I: So what would be an example of that?
CS: Well, with Starsky and Hutch, for example, you've got a pairing where the
men are typical heterosexual, aggressive guys - they're cops - and all of the
barriers that society has against the love between men are barriers that they
have to surmount to recognize their love and to consummate their love for each
other. And so those barriers are very intense, and it makes the story much
more
powerful in that way. So often the writers will create devices like the life
or
death situation that was in that little quote that makes them realize how much
they love each other.
I: But isn't the answer to all of this just for people to write stronger
heroines who have a more evenly balanced relationship with the man?
(continued in Part 3)
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 9 Jul 2001 23:20:10 EDT
From: Bizarro7@aol.com
Subject: Re: ATTN: All Fan Fic writers (Part 3)
CS: Well, that would be one thing that could happen, but I think that if
there's
one thing that - even if you have a real strong female character, like you
could
have the Mulder/Scully, X-Files type of situation where, in a sense, they are
on
a more equal footing, but I think one of the appeals with slash is that the
relationship is based in the first place on their friendship and the
interdependence that they share. That's not coloured by initial lust, so that
when any man meets a woman and there's that initial sexual attraction, I think
that women are always aware of the fact that one of the huge factors for men
in
the appeal of women in general is the physical attractiveness, and that
they're
attracted to their body before they're attracted to anything else about them,
and that in slash stories, what's really the driving factor behind the
relationship isn't, you know, that they've got the hots for their body, but
that
they've got the hots for the person inside. And that's going to survive
regardless of what time does to the way you look. And I think that fantasy is
extremely appealing for a lot of women.
I: And seriously appealing? This isn't tongue-in-cheek, this isn't just a bit
of
kitsch?
CS: Right, exactly! And it's appealing in the sense that there are a lot of
women who do really like these stories, they read these stories preferentially
over other sorts of romance novel.
I: Which is what really interested you as an evolutionary psychologist;
because
this story gets even more bizarre, because this fits into the theories of
Darwinian psychology?
CS: It does, and it does in many ways. As far as Darwinian psychology goes,
it's
easy to explain differences between erotic material that's produced for men
and
that what's produced for women. So that for men you have this huge pornography
industry where the main body of the material is all about sex and it's about
lust and physical gratification, and not about relationships or finding your
one
true love, which is what the romance novel's all about. And it's easy to look
at
that from a Darwinian perspective, that for women one of the biggest concerns
is
finding a mate who will stay with you and remain faithful to you and help you
raise your children. And that for males, while that's also a part of their
psychology, that they a choose mate and they raise children with them, a
little
bit of action on the side doesn't have a really high cost for men. And in
terms
of passing their genes on to their children, it can have a benefit, so that a
man might marry and raise children, but if he fathers one or two children
outside of the relationship, he may do it at no cost, because some other man
may
be raising those children.
I: How does slash fiction fit into this?
CS: Well, I think slash fiction fits into it in an interesting way. Part of
the
reason for writing the book was that we were interested in trying to explain
why
women would be interested in slash fiction. And part of what we do in the book
is we explain how so much slash is like romance. Because some people in
culture
studies who had done some work on slash had suggested that what's going on is
that slash is pornography for women.
I: Because it's much more overtly erotic.
CS: It certainly is. And the descriptions of what goes on in terms of the
sexual
activities can be very explicit. And so in that sense that might seem on the
surface to be a little bit more pornographic, but in fact slash is anything
but
that, because even romance has, at the very start of the relationship, its
basis
in a lust for the physical, and that's not present in slash at all, so in some
ways slash is even more romantic than a romance novel.
I: Isn't it a very deterministic way of looking at relationships between men
and women? I mean, haven't we, in the 21st century, in the era of birth
control,
aren't cultural norms more important than these biological imperatives?
CS: I think that some cultural norms do play a role and have an influence,
but I
think that you can't that easily turn away from millions of years of
evolutionary history, and that just because something like birth control has
become common in the last century doesn't mean that human psychological
development and adaptation change that quickly.
I: But looking at ideas of beauty; years ago presumably in the Stone Ages, big
women would have been regarded as particularly attractive because of
fertility,
yet now we have thin women as the ideal.
CS: Well, yes and no. So, there certainly is a more slender ideal of beauty,
and
that's in our culture; as well there's a lot of cultural variation in how
attractive thin women are considered, and there are certainly lots of cultures
where the preference isn't for as thin as in the UK and the United States and
Canada. But what some people have shown, actually, in doing the research is
that
it's not so much the thinness or the fatness that is what's most consistent
about our standards of attractiveness in for example the female shape, but
that
actually it's more to do with things like the ratio between your waist size
and
your hip size, which is very reflective of fertility. And, in fact, even
though
we like very thin women, we like very thin women that have a thin waist and
still have hips. So that we don't want, really, boy-looking girls, we like
them
to still look like women.
I: Thanks very much, Catherine Salmon, fascinating stuff.
END
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 9 Jul 2001 20:32:58 -0700
From: J Raumo <jraumo@yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: ATTN: All Fan Fic writers
At the risk of once more sticking my neck out on
matters I don't fully understand I'm going to answer
DragonLady's charges.
DragonLady wrote:
>>And you can't claim *FAIR USE* of a character, plot,
idea, universe, etc., you can cite specific parts of a
work with proper attribution (and there are limits on
how much in the fair use doctrine), but that's it. <<
I'm sure the Mitchell Trusts, owners of the copyright
on 'Gone with the Wind' would love to hear this if it
were true, given that they just lost an injunction to
stop the publication of a book that did just this. A
parody, that uses someone else's character and plot
and idea, is fully protected under Fair Use.
Fair Use, as it applies to fan fiction, has never been
tested in court. Until it has your view, that fan
fiction is not covered by fair use, is no more or less
valid than mine, that it is.
DragonLady wrote:
>>That ridiculous disclaimer that most fan fic carries
about "not making any money" doesn't mean anything in
court <<
Copyright law is civil law, not criminal law. Most
generally held beliefs about law come from criminal
law so a lot of what you think you may know about law
doesn't necessarily apply to civil law. For example,
you cannot be compelled to testify against yourself in
a criminal court but no such guarantee exists in civil
court. That's all in reference to U.S. law.
This was, in fact, my mistake in my assumptions about
plagiarism. I assumed that there was some 'law
against plagiarism' and that someone could be found
guilty of committing that crime, but that's a criminal
law view of things and it turns out it has nothing to
do with civil law. Civil law is largely concerned
with assigning monetary damages and if a work is found
to be infringing but no profit was made the
compensation awarded will be significantly lower. So
those disclaimers do have a very specific meaning in
civil court and they become even more important if the
author intends to use Fair Use as a defense. The
meaning is just not what the person you quoted thought
it was.
DragonLady quoted someone who wrote:
>>Simply distributing fan fic weather it be e-mail,
website or whatever is not illegal so long as money is
not being made w/o permission of the owner of the
copyright. Please, correct me if I'm wrong, but that
is my understanding of it. <<
My understanding is that the issue of making money is
independent of the question of infringement. If the
work is found to be infringing then having made no
money from it will reduce the associated fines. If
the work is found not to be infringing then the issue
of profit doesn't come into it.
I found a really good explanation of copyright issues
as they apply to fan fiction at Whoosh.
http://www.whoosh.org/issue25/lee1.html
and a very persuasive defense of fan fiction being
covered by Fair Use at:
http://users.erols.com/tushnet/law/fanficarticle.html
Jo Raumo
=====
There are some problems in life that can't be solved with triangles. - Albert Einstein to Pythagoras, Red Dwarf
__________________________________________________
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Get personalized email addresses from Yahoo! Mail
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------------------------------
Date: Mon, 9 Jul 2001 22:03:43 -0700
From: Maria <mariathedruidhl@yahoo.com>
Subject: OT:My Site
Hi All
Well I have re-vamp my site again ,renamed some pages.
I hope that who ever has linked to my site has linked
to the main page :} I have alot of Highlander/Raven
links but if have missed a few I hope you will send me
the link so I can put it on the site :}
=====
Maria
Link Archive of Forever Knight, Highlander/Raven (the series’) Queen of Swords, Charmed, Witchblade & Dark Angel
http://linkarchive.topcities.com/
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------------------------------
Date: Tue, 10 Jul 2001 08:56:12 +0200
From: Marina Bailey <fdd-tmar@netactive.co.za>
Subject: Re: ATTN: All Fan Fic writers
Nita wrote:
>But, you think it's _their_ fault if a producer or writer or actor "finds"
>fanfic--slash or otherwise--on the Internet? So, in order to soothe your
>conscience, maybe they just shouldn't be online at all?
But why would they look for it in the first place? (My conscience
doesn't need soothing, thanks.) They'd still have to go to a search
engine and type in keywords, etc. And that isn't always a guarantee
that the right thing will pop up in the search first time. What
search engine do you use, that you look for Highlander and find
slash? Cause I wanna get that one!!
>No, the Internet changed the whole ballgame re: fanfic (as it did w/ a lot
>of other stuff). TPTB _could_ ignore fanzines; they can't ignore the web.
Why not? There's so much out there that it's hard to find it all as
it is.
>Sorry, but that guy's underlying "theory" is laughable twaddle. Highly
>convenient for fanfic writers, but still.
Gee, these professors from MIT get a lot of respect I see.
>I agree--most fanfic writers do it for the attention. That doesn't mean
>they have the right to steal fictional universes from their owners, in order
>to latch onto that universe's built-in (due to the owner's hard work, money
>& risk) audience, then exploit it for their own purposes.
Who's stealing anything? Any idiot knows that the HL (or Star Trek
or whatever) universe doesn't belong to the fanfic writer. Including
the fanfic writer herself.
>Well, I think I'm as entitled to my opinion about the rights & wrongs of
>fanfic as you are. And I AM telling fanfic writers that distributing their
>work widely such as via the Internet is going to backfire, at some point.
>It's just too blatant.
We're waiting....
>And, I also think ALL fans are punished for fanfic writers' selfish
>excesses, just as we are ALL punished when TPTB, actors, etc. react
>reasonably to things like stalkers.
We're all always punished for anything idiots do. I don't see how
the excesses of a few people should mean that everyone else has to
suffer.
>> How widely? On mailing lists? Web pages?
>Yes.
Oooh, well, I'd better rush right out and remove all my fanfic from
my webpage NOT.
>Slash is an extreme form of fanfic, so reactions to it are likely to be
>extreme. It will therefore be singled out. That doesn't mean that people
>who dislike slash are homophobic.
Ri-ight.
>It sounds like you would be ashamed for TPTB to read what you write, slash
>or whatever. Surely, that's reason right there to stop doing it.
I most certainly would not be in the least ashamed. I would not
want them reading ANY fanfic at all, mine or anyone else's, for
the precise reason that I already stated - if they did, then they
could not longer pretend they didn't know about it.
>Then, I think you are naive.
Oh well. I've been called worse.
>And--if you really think that, why NOT present
>slash stories to them? Why NOT show off your work to them, just as you do
>to other fans? Why NOT ask all the GOHs at Reunion about fanfic & slash in
>particular? Your position that it's all OK, as long as TPTB can pretend
>they don't know about it doesn't make sense to me. Something like this is
>either right, or it is wrong. And, it isn't right, just because you like
>doing it.
You answered your own question. We try to keep fanfic underground
so that TPTB can pretend they don't know. And as long as they keep on
pretending they don't know, we can assume we can carry on writing
fanfic.
>I don't think it's unreasonable for an actor to think those
>unofficial "performances" (w/ the slash elements, as well as anything else
>added on by the amateur writer) could color the public perception of
>them--really all-important to a public figure such as an actor--in much the
>same way their _actual_ carefully chosen & enacted performances do.
Right. Like the public of the entire US is going to read slash and
think AP is gay. Why does that seem like a very unlikely scenario to
me?
- Marina, having MAJOR Marty flashbacks. This is my last post on the
subject. Really.
\\ "You can spend precious time marching in your ||>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> //
// perfect lines, but I don't hear that drum; I'm || R I C H I E >> \\
\\ looking for something else. And if you don't ||>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> //
//like what you see, you don't have to look at me."|| \\
\\==fdd-tmar@netactive.co.za=Chief Flag Waver and Defender of Richie==//
"Cultural artifacts always come alive and take over the ship." - My
brother, watching Star Trek Voyager.
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 10 Jul 2001 08:57:35 +0200
From: Tarryn Zank <Zankt@nu.ac.za>
Subject: O/T: List mommy's e-mail address?
I know I should put it in my e-mail address book, and I will from today, =
but can anyone please send me her most current addy? I seem to remember a =
move recently, so I'm sure the last addy I had is no longer valid.
Thanks
Tarryn
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 10 Jul 2001 09:39:23 +0200
From: Tarryn Zank <Zankt@nu.ac.za>
Subject: Re: O/T List Mommy's e-mail address...
I found it! No need to send it. I really should learn to check my =
trash-bin more often....<scurrying away to hide>
Tarryn
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 10 Jul 2001 03:50:38 -0400
From: mousehounde <mousehounde@datalinkc.com>
Subject: Re: further OT..was O/T: List mommy's e-mail address?
When did lists become run by mommy and daddy? Whatever happened to ListAdmin
or Administrator? I am not picking on Tarryn. This has become widespread on
almost every list I am on and I would like to know.... why?
mouse
----- Original Message -----
From: "Tarryn Zank" <Zankt@nu.ac.za>
To: <HIGHLA-L@LISTS.PSU.EDU>
Sent: Tuesday, July 10, 2001 2:57 AM
Subject: O/T: List mommy's e-mail address?
I know I should put it in my e-mail address book, and I will from today, but
can anyone please send me her most current addy? I seem to remember a move
recently, so I'm sure the last addy I had is no longer valid.
Thanks
Tarryn
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 10 Jul 2001 09:45:21 +0100
From: John Mosby <A.J.Mosby@btinternet.com>
Subject: Re: ATTN: All Fan Fic writers
Probably my last word, but no guarantees - it depends if the same points
keep getting repeated or new threads emerge....
> But why would they look for it in the first place? (My conscience
> doesn't need soothing, thanks.) They'd still have to go to a search
> engine and type in keywords, etc. And that isn't always a guarantee
> that the right thing will pop up in the search first time. What
> search engine do you use, that you look for Highlander and find
> slash? Cause I wanna get that one!!
Well, it's fair to say that if I type 'Highlander McLeod' into just about
any search engine, some of the first twenty-five sites listed will be fan
sites, a proportion of which may have fanfic. In this day and age it isn't
difficult for a new surfer to find themselves somewhere they didn't expect.
I've lost count of the times I've input info into a search engine to try and
get official facts and had to go through a ton of fansites first. Again, not
a complaint - an observation.
> >No, the Internet changed the whole ballgame re: fanfic (as it did w/ a
lot
> >of other stuff). TPTB _could_ ignore fanzines; they can't ignore the
web.
Yes, they can ignore the web, but with the growing force of and size of web
activities it's better to keep a deniable eye open just in case. That way if
any serious incident happens, they cna react if necessary. I'm guessing Bill
Panzer doesn't spend hour spouring over the Net. I do think that if a fan
put up a site called *http://www.BillPanzerisasheepmolester.com he might
well get to hear about it and might be more inclined to act on it. The point
i'm making is that they are aware of the Net and its power. They see no need
to set a precedent or to spoil fanfic writers fun at the moment. However
there is some truth to say it would only take one obsessive to do something
loud, vocal, legalise and press-attracting and the house of cards might
collapse.
> >I agree--most fanfic writers do it for the attention. That doesn't mean
> >they have the right to steal fictional universes from their owners, in
order
> >to latch onto that universe's built-in (due to the owner's hard work,
money
> >& risk) audience, then exploit it for their own purposes.
>
> Who's stealing anything? Any idiot knows that the HL (or Star Trek
> or whatever) universe doesn't belong to the fanfic writer. Including
> the fanfic writer herself.
Not sure if its for the attention per se. I write for magazines and, yes, I
want people to read my work and hopefully enjoy it. If there were no
magazines to write for, I'd write for myself. I have a great respect for
anyone who picks up a pen or keyboard and puts down their thoughts. A blank
page/screen is one of the most challenging things you can see. Some writers
write because...the alternative is unthinkable.
> >Well, I think I'm as entitled to my opinion about the rights & wrongs of
> >fanfic as you are. And I AM telling fanfic writers that distributing
their
> >work widely such as via the Internet is going to backfire, at some point.
> >It's just too blatant.
It most definitely could, though if fanfic writers are responsible it won't
be for a long while. As long as TPTB CAN ignore fanfic they will be happy to
do so. They could never enforce a blanket-ban, but the healthy respect that
exists between fans and TPTB could be strained if someone wants to do
something naive and stupid like make a fanfic challenge in court.
Slash is an extreme form of fanfic, so reactions to it are likely to be
> >extreme. It will therefore be singled out. That doesn't mean that
people
> >who dislike slash are homophobic.
>
> Ri-ight.
Slash fanfic IS controversial and people's sexuality is still a
controversial subject for some. Bottom line: I don't get turned on by
reading/watching two men get it on. I apologise if that apparently makes me
homophobic (I'll ring my gay friends and inform them). I thought it simply
made me hetrosexual.
> >It sounds like you would be ashamed for TPTB to read what you write,
slash
> >or whatever. Surely, that's reason right there to stop doing it.
>
> I most certainly would not be in the least ashamed. I would not
> want them reading ANY fanfic at all, mine or anyone else's, for
> the precise reason that I already stated - if they did, then they
> could not longer pretend they didn't know about it.
> >And--if you really think that, why NOT present
> >slash stories to them? Why NOT show off your work to them, just as you
do
> >to other fans? Why NOT ask all the GOHs at Reunion about fanfic & slash
in
> >particular? Your position that it's all OK, as long as TPTB can pretend
> >they don't know about it doesn't make sense to me. Something like this
is
> >either right, or it is wrong. And, it isn't right, just because you like
> >doing it.
Again, my position. Fanfic isn't wrong, it can be great. But it has no legal
protection. Usually TPTB don't care and may even silently thank God that
interest in their franchise is being kept alive. But a fanfic writer must
know that such 'deniability' doesn't infer anything other than a
'tolerance', not a legal right. All fanfic writers should be proud of their
work, but aware that it should not be shouted about too loudly or with too
much indignation.
> >I don't think it's unreasonable for an actor to think those
> >unofficial "performances" (w/ the slash elements, as well as anything
else
> >added on by the amateur writer) could color the public perception of
> >them--really all-important to a public figure such as an actor--in much
the
> >same way their _actual_ carefully chosen & enacted performances do.
> Right. Like the public of the entire US is going to read slash and
> think AP is gay. Why does that seem like a very unlikely scenario to
> me?
I couldn't agree more (though your point would be affected by the fact that
75% of the entire US probably doesn't know who AP is to begin with). The
important thing is, Tom Cruise couldn't agree less and he's proved that if
he feels anybody is questioning aspects of his sexuality, he's prepared to
spend time and money to make them eat their words.
Fanfic isn't wrong. Slash fanfic isn't wrong. But it all treads a thin line
and it's worth noting that those who find themselves/aspects of themselves
depicted in fanfic doing things they might not agree with, are always going
to be less tolerant than the writer/fan reader
The pen is mightier than the sword, but the ego is more fragile than the
keyboard.
-John
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End of HIGHLA-L Digest - 9 Jul 2001 to 10 Jul 2001 - Special issue (#2001-187)
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