HIGHLA-L Digest - 6 Jul 2001 to 7 Jul 2001 - Special issue (#2001-181)
Automatic digest processor (LISTSERV@LISTS.PSU.EDU)
Sat, 7 Jul 2001 15:40:54 -0400
There are 21 messages totalling 872 lines in this issue.
Topics in this special issue:
1. ATTN: All Fan Fic writers (21)
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Date: Sat, 7 Jul 2001 00:32:25 -0400
From: Dragon Lady <dragonlady@darkmage.net>
Subject: Re: ATTN: All Fan Fic writers
You do realize that fan fiction is a copyright violation to begin with? You
can't copyright a story in which some characters, ideas, plots, etc are
already the property of someone else (unless they've given permission for
the use, as in the HL novels).
Not saying this is the case here (could be an original story), but fan fic
authors who use characters, plot, etc don't have a case in copyright
litigation (and legally can NOT copyright a story that is NOT completely
original) and risk the ire of the copyright holders ... who could in turn
sue everyone.
--DL
At 7/6/01 09:30 PM, you wrote:
>A few friends of mine had someone plagiarize a story of theirs, foolishly
>enough a copyrighted story. They are taking legal action now, but they've
>also started an anti-plagiarism site that if anyone is interested in
>should check out. It'll help bring out more awareness to something very
>serious. You can visit the site at:
>http://www.fightplagiarism.cjb.net/
------------------------------
Date: Sat, 7 Jul 2001 10:28:45 +0100
From: "John Mosby (B)" <a.j.mosby@btinternet.com>
Subject: Re: ATTN: All Fan Fic writers
Dragon Lady points out the legal side of this. Technically you are playing
in someone else's sand-pit and therefore the characters and situations
cannot be copyrighted by you in any way. There was a long discussion about
this on the alt.tv.highlander list sometime ago. FanFic can only survive if
it can fly under the radar of TPTB. Otherwise they could be obliged to sue a
FanFic writer - not because they wnant to, but because an infringment of
copyright has occured and they may need to set an example for any legal case
involving larger infringment.
To my knowledge that's never happened and no-one (on either side) wants it
to, but it's always a point to remember. If YOU create a character and
another fan uses it without your permission and in a
way/style/attitude/sexuality you never intended, you'd be annoyed too. You
might have to draw a line in the sand.
On the other hand, it is the laziest of writers who steals whole works
outright. Fanfic often requires no less talent than *official* pieces of
work and for someone to come along and simply change a few words and then
pass it off as their own is a cheap and rather stupid idea in itself. It
doesn't make you a writer, just a cheap imitator and such people are often
exposed for that.
Write because you like writing. Write because you like the subject-matter
and you feel you have stories that need to come from your pen or keyboard.
Write for yourself and then be pleasantly surprised when it entertains
others.
The rest is the space between the lines.
AJM
----- Original Message -----
From: "Carrie V. Key" <reeana1@HOME.COM>
To: <HIGHLA-L@LISTS.PSU.EDU>
Sent: Saturday, July 07, 2001 2:30 AM
Subject: [HL] ATTN: All Fan Fic writers
Hey everybody. Sorry for the cross post and the OTness, but I had to share
this with you all. I know there are a lot of fan fic writers out there and I
wanted to bring this to your attention. A few friends of mine had someone
plagiarize a story of theirs, foolishly enough a copyrighted story. They are
taking legal action now, but they've also started an anti-plagiarism site
that if anyone is interested in should check out. It'll help bring out more
awareness to something very serious. You can visit the site at:
http://www.fightplagiarism.cjb.net/
I urge everybody who is a fan fic writer to do so. And if I wasn't suppose
to put this on any of these lists, I am prepared to take my lashes from the
list gods as they see fit:).
---
Carrie Key
reeana1@home.com
vatazes@home.com
http://members.home.net/reeana1/my_domain.htm
http://members.home.net/vatazes/welcome.htm
http://www.angelfire.com/celeb2/hornygurlz/index.htm
LadyReeana, Ana Vatazes, Javina Jinn,
PWFC, OFEB, QJEB, Clan of the Eternally Clueless,
Proud Owner of 'Oasis Bathing Ardeth' Clone #1
"Tas! You Doorknob!" Flint Fireforge, Dragonlance
"I came, I saw, I broke a hip." Johnny Bravo
------------------------------
Date: Sat, 7 Jul 2001 10:35:41 +0100
From: Jette Goldie <jette@blueyonder.co.uk>
Subject: Re: ATTN: All Fan Fic writers
John Mosby points out:
> Write because you like writing. Write because you like the subject-matter
> and you feel you have stories that need to come from your pen or keyboard.
> Write for yourself and then be pleasantly surprised when it entertains
> others.
>
> The rest is the space between the lines.
Amen! (and according to my friends who are published
authors, this rule applies to original fic too <g>)
Jette
Glory may be fleeting, but obscurity is forever!
bosslady@scotlandmail.com
http://www.jette.pwp.blueyonder.co.uk/fanfic.html
------------------------------
Date: Sat, 7 Jul 2001 08:50:36 EDT
From: Bizarro7@aol.com
Subject: Re: ATTN: All Fan Fic writers
The issue here is plagerism of an original idea. The violation is one of
originality. Over the past 30 years, I've seen instances before where one fan
"author" or another had lifted an entire plot (and even dialogue) from
another fan's story (sometimes in a different fandom) and published it
themselves, with no acknowledgement. I even remember one fan who used to lift
the entire stories, unchanged, and print them (complete with illustrations)
in their own fanzine, only removing the author and artist names and
pretending it's their own work! And I've seen fan authors steal entire plots
and dialogue from professional paperbacks. About the only thing you can do is
publicly point out the plagerism and embarass the so-called author for
scheming to live off the recognition of someone else's labor and talent.
------------------------------
Date: Sat, 7 Jul 2001 09:31:17 -0400
From: "Carrie V. Key" <reeana1@home.com>
Subject: Re: ATTN: All Fan Fic writers
----- Original Message -----
From: <Bizarro7@aol.com>
To: <HIGHLA-L@LISTS.PSU.EDU>
Sent: Saturday, July 07, 2001 8:50 AM
Subject: Re: [HL] ATTN: All Fan Fic writers
> The issue here is plagerism of an original idea. The violation is one of
> originality. Over the past 30 years, I've seen instances before where one
fan
> "author" or another had lifted an entire plot (and even dialogue) from
> another fan's story (sometimes in a different fandom) and published it
> themselves, with no acknowledgement. I even remember one fan who used to
lift
> the entire stories, unchanged, and print them (complete with
illustrations)
> in their own fanzine, only removing the author and artist names and
> pretending it's their own work! And I've seen fan authors steal entire
plots
> and dialogue from professional paperbacks. About the only thing you can do
is
> publicly point out the plagerism and embarass the so-called author for
> scheming to live off the recognition of someone else's labor and talent.
Too true. Everyone brings up valid points. In a lot of cases it is the fan
fic writers themselves that are in violation of the copyright laws (hence
the problem w/ a lot of Star Wars fan sites in the last few years). But the
story my friends wrote is a legally copyrighted story that used a person's
real life story (w/permission) and added a music star to it. They posted it
on their site and it was stolen. Fan fic writers may have fewer rights when
it comes to copyrighting, but they can still copyright their stuff. I know
quite a few who have. I've written a few fan fics in my time and I know I
strive for originality. Don't know if I make it. But I don't like just
taking someone else's work and copying it word for word. The Highlander fics
I've written just use the characters and ideas. I've seen some writers do
the above mentioned things. I've seen some of them slapped with lawsuits
believe it or not. I've seen some of them not even be bothered by the
negative attention they received and they continue to do it. It is a
problem, irregardless of the legalities. And I just wanted to share the site
with you guys since I know we have a lot of fan fic writers on list.
---
Carrie Key
reeana1@home.com
vatazes@home.com
http://members.home.net/reeana1/my_domain.htm
http://members.home.net/vatazes/welcome.htm
http://www.angelfire.com/celeb2/hornygurlz/index.htm
LadyReeana, Ana Vatazes, Javina Jinn,
PWFC, OFEB, QJEB, Clan of the Eternally Clueless,
Proud Owner of 'Oasis Bathing Ardeth' Clone #1
"Tas! You Doorknob!" Flint Fireforge, Dragonlance
"I came, I saw, I broke a hip." Johnny Bravo
------------------------------
Date: Sat, 7 Jul 2001 12:27:07 EDT
From: Ashton7@aol.com
Subject: Re: ATTN: All Fan Fic writers
In a message dated 7/7/01 5:29:03 AM Eastern Daylight Time,
a.j.mosby@btinternet.com writes:
<< FanFic can only survive if
it can fly under the radar of TPTB. Otherwise they could be obliged to sue a
FanFic writer - not because they wnant to, but because an infringment of
copyright has occured and they may need to set an example for any legal case
involving larger infringment. >>
Actually, this is a legal gray area that has never been tested in court. You
can not copyright a character or the name of a character, for instance. You
can only trademark it... and even then you have legal recourse only if you
can prove that the person using "your" trademarked name has in some way cost
you money or confused the public into thinking they are offering your
product.
Original fan fiction stories can be copyrighted just as easily as any other
work of fiction. That copyright is completely legal and will stand up in
court if someone steals your work. The issue of whether or not the *original*
copyright holder of, say, Highlander could then sue the fan fiction writer
for infringing *their* copyright is a different issue altogether.
Annie CWPack
------------------------------
Date: Sat, 7 Jul 2001 09:44:16 -0700
From: Lynn <lloschin@sprynet.com>
Subject: Re: ATTN: All Fan Fic writers
From: "Carrie V. Key" <reeana1@home.com>
> Fan fic writers may have fewer rights when
> it comes to copyrighting, but they can still copyright their stuff.
Anyone can claim copyright to almost anything. If the material is
copyrightable, all it takes is writing it down, and voila, it's
copyrighted. The problem with fanfic is that it's not copyrightable.
Getting a certificate from the Copyright Office requires nothing more
than sending in two copies, a one-page form and a check for $20. That
doesn't mean the copyright is valid; it's not, and if ever challenged,
the fanfic writer would lose. I think any fanfic writer who attempts
to get a copyright certificate is a blooming idiot, but hey, it takes
all kinds.
>I know
> quite a few who have.
Who?
>I've written a few fan fics in my time and I know I
> strive for originality. Don't know if I make it. But I don't like
just
> taking someone else's work and copying it word for word. The
Highlander fics
> I've written just use the characters and ideas.
That doesn't matter. The "universe" isn't yours and you can't
copyright material based in the Highlander universe -- period.
>I've seen some writers do
> the above mentioned things. I've seen some of them slapped with
lawsuits
> believe it or not.
In the context of fanfic? I'm not aware of any such lawsuit, but I'd
be more than interested to learn the circumstances -- please tell me
when and where such lawsuits were filed.
>It is a
> problem, irregardless of the legalities. And I just wanted to share
the site
> with you guys since I know we have a lot of fan fic writers on list.
But you can't separate the "legalities" when you're talking about
filing a lawsuit against someone.
Any fanfic writer who sued another fanfic writer for violating their
"copyright" would lose -- period, no question. The fanfic writer has
*no* copyright to protect on any work of fanfic. None. They'd also
probably bring themselves to the attention of TPTB and find themselves
on the business end of a cease and desist letter.
Problems like plagarism among fans can only be handled informally
among fans, as Leah suggested. Anything else would be fruitless and
ultimately self-defeating.
Lynn
Mailto: lloschin@sprynet.com
Web: http://home.sprynet.com/~lloschin
ICQ#: 308138
------------------------------
Date: Sat, 7 Jul 2001 09:57:28 -0700
From: Lynn <lloschin@sprynet.com>
Subject: Re: ATTN: All Fan Fic writers
From: <Ashton7@aol.com>
> Actually, this is a legal gray area that has never been tested in
court. You
> can not copyright a character or the name of a character, for
instance.
Uh... I don't think this is all that clearly established as far as a
character (not the name, but the character itself). The last cases
that address this go back to the early 20th century, they reach mixed
conclusions and aren't very clear one way or the other. IMO this is a
big reason why the James Bond case settled... neither studio wanted to
litigate this issue.
> Original fan fiction stories can be copyrighted just as easily as
any other
> work of fiction. That copyright is completely legal and will stand
up in
> court if someone steals your work. The issue of whether or not the
*original*
> copyright holder of, say, Highlander could then sue the fan fiction
writer
> for infringing *their* copyright is a different issue altogether.
I would really disagree... I think the best argument that fanfic isn't
a copyright violation is that it's a fair use. But the fact that you
can use a copyrighted work as a fair use doesn't entitle you to
establish independent rights in the work that incorporates the
fairly-used work. If you were able to establish such rights, you
could then turn around and sue TPTB for infringing on your copyrighted
fanfic... and I don't see that happening. In other words, there's a
big difference between not infringing and being accorded rights of
your own.
Intellectual propery law largely uses forms of equitable relief as
remedies... and equitable remedies must be fair and just. I think you
would have a darned hard time convincing a federal judge that you
should be able to stop someone else from using a part of your work,
which infringes someone else's copyright unless it's excusable as a
fair use.
If a judge ever did by that argument, it would happen exactly once,
because Congress would amend the Copyright Act so fast your head would
spin.
Lynn
------------------------------
Date: Sat, 7 Jul 2001 13:16:20 -0400
From: Sandy Fields <diamonique@earthlink.net>
Subject: Re: ATTN: All Fan Fic writers
At 09:31 AM 07/07/01, Carrie V. Key wrote:
>Too true. Everyone brings up valid points. In a lot of cases it is the fan
>fic writers themselves that are in violation of the copyright laws (hence
>the problem w/ a lot of Star Wars fan sites in the last few years). But the
>story my friends wrote is a legally copyrighted story that used a person's
>real life story (w/permission) and added a music star to it. They posted it
>on their site and it was stolen.
I've been following this thread. Interesting. But this bit of info has me
just a tad confuzzled.
The work that was 'stolen' was an original work using original characters,
and was legally copyrighted. I got that part. But then my question is...
why was your original message addressed to fanfic writers? What does this
have to do with them? They're already playin in someone else's universe
using someone else's characters.
The original work that you're specifically talking about.... and the work
of fanfic writers... is... well... apples and oranges. Unless I've missed
a post somewhere, what happened to you and your possible remedies to the
situation simply don't apply to fanfic writers.
Did I miss something?
-- Sandy
------------------------------
Date: Sat, 7 Jul 2001 13:44:03 -0400
From: Dragon Lady <dragonlady@darkmage.net>
Subject: Re: ATTN: All Fan Fic writers
At 7/7/01 01:16 PM, you wrote:
>Did I miss something?
Sandy,
I took a look at the site the poster directed us to, and it's a small
section of an N'Sync fan fiction site. From what the poster said later I'm
assuming the story in question was original to the point that they used a
real member of the group. If nothing else, it's a trademark violation -- as
most celebrities have trademarked their names to avoid unauthorized use and
endorsement situations.
------------
Peace and Laughter,
--DL
The light at the end of the tunnel may be an oncoming dragon.
------------------------------
Date: Sat, 7 Jul 2001 18:52:11 +0100
From: "John Mosby (B)" <a.j.mosby@btinternet.com>
Subject: Re: ATTN: All Fan Fic writers
Annie wrote:
>You cannot copyright a character or the name of a character, for instance.
You
> can only trademark it... and even then you have legal recourse only if you
> can prove that the person using "your" trademarked name has in some way
cost
> you money or confused the public into thinking they are offering your
> product.
Okay, colour me confused.....If YOU created a character and trademarked it,
would you or would you not have the slightest problem with me going: "Hey,
what a great character, think I'll use them in my work that I'm going to
make available to 50,000 people, but hey let's make them a murderer, a
rapist, change their sexuality" or make them do something that you find
inappropriate to your original vision??? I'm guessing I'd hear a very
forthright opinion from you from a continent away!
> Original fan fiction stories can be copyrighted just as easily as any
other
> work of fiction. That copyright is completely legal and will stand up in
> court if someone steals your work. The issue of whether or not the
*original*
> copyright holder of, say, Highlander could then sue the fan fiction writer
> for infringing *their* copyright is a different issue altogether.
Hold on...you're saying that a fan-fiction writer could sue over the misuse
or illegal copy of the work s/he does, but that there's some much grey-er
area when it comes to the person who originally created the character doing
the same to the fan-fiction writer????Absolutely the same issue at least on
a moral level. We can argue the difference between (tm) and (c) but
essentially they are there to do the same thing which is to prevent people
doing what they want with your hard work or claiming it as their own.
If someone copies your work you can stomp and scream (rightly so), but if
the characters you are using aren't yours there's nothing you can do about
it legally (after all, as you said you'd have to prove financial loss and if
you were earning money from someone else's creations YOU are already
breaking the law!!!)
We've gone over this plenty of times on ATH, but the essential truth is
this. You can write whatever you want about any character you want for your
own amusement. The estate of Sherlock Holmes or Davis Panzer cannot touch
you for honing any writing skills you may have on any creation you choose.
No law has been broken and no real moral boundary crossed. However the
minute you start circulating the stories, there's a change in the
circumstance and if you charge for your fan-fic/fanzines ( I seem to recall
quite a few ads for such) then you are making money - even if its only cents
or pence. That might well be enough to take legal action IF someone felt so
inclined.
Fan-fic is relatively harmless and I think most (c)holders would be
shooting themselves in the foot to try and regulate it to such an extent
that it pissed off the fans. party-popper and I've often gone toe-to-toe
with the lieks of Donna and Gillian on the common-sense side of the fanfic
equation and the stupidity of silencing a useful section of the
fan-base...but they have every right to do so if they think it affects their
original product in a negative way.
The bottom line is: You can't say you have the legal right to takle a fellow
fan-fic writer and say TPTB have any less right to do the same. You are
playing with characters that someone else spent time and money creating and
marketing - and you do so because you love the characters. If you want to
have the ultimate and legal right to do what you will, create your own
universe.... but always ask yourself how YOU would react when someone else
wants to play with YOUR toys.
Otherwise this smacks of 'do what I say, not what I do' on a moral level at
least. That's always a good level to start from...
John Mosby
------------------------------
Date: Sat, 7 Jul 2001 14:09:20 -0400
From: Sandy Fields <diamonique@earthlink.net>
Subject: Re: ATTN: All Fan Fic writers
OK here's a question.
Let's say a fanfic writer does a Highlander story. The characters and the
universe are, of course, the property of someone else. But the story,
plotline, etc. popped out brand new and fresh from the mind of the fanfic
writer. Then someone else comes along, steals the story. This new work is
still set in the HL universe, is almost a word-for-word copy of the first
fanfic writer's story, but it uses all original characters... no P/D
characters at all.
I know the first fanfic writer can't go after the second one for using the
HL universe, but can s/he go after the second writer for stealing his/her
original story?
I understand it would be a pretty ridiculous use of time and money to do
so, but technically... is it possible?
-- Sandy
------------------------------
Date: Sat, 7 Jul 2001 14:29:20 -0400
From: Dragon Lady <dragonlady@darkmage.net>
Subject: Re: ATTN: All Fan Fic writers
At 7/7/01 02:09 PM, you wrote:
>I know the first fanfic writer can't go after the second one for using the
>HL universe, but can s/he go after the second writer for stealing his/her
>original story?
No because the first story is not "original" ... you can NOT claim
ownership to something that is NOT yours to claim. So if your story is
yours but the characters aren't ... the story really isn't yours.
If I wrote a story about Sherlock Holmes solving a mystery that Sir Doyle
never thought of, it still wouldn't be "my" story. Because the character
drives the plot and the plot is dependent on the character and
characterizations (how he solves the mystery, etc.). So I also couldn't
take a plot from Sir Doyle's stories and just change the names.
This is not a grey issue ... characters that belong to someone else can not
be used without permission ... if you do, you're committing
copyright/trademark infringement (provided the works aren't in the public
domain). Titles can not be copyrighted, characters and plots can.
--DL
------------------------------
Date: Sat, 7 Jul 2001 14:38:12 -0400
From: Sandy Fields <diamonique@earthlink.net>
Subject: Re: ATTN: All Fan Fic writers
At 02:29 PM 07/07/01, Dragon Lady wrote:
>So if your story is yours but the characters aren't ... the story really
>isn't yours.
OK. That's exactly what I was asking. Thanks for the clarification.
-- Sandy
------------------------------
Date: Sat, 7 Jul 2001 11:35:20 -0700
From: Lynn <lloschin@sprynet.com>
Subject: Re: ATTN: All Fan Fic writers
> Let's say a fanfic writer does a Highlander story. The characters
and the
> universe are, of course, the property of someone else. But the
story,
> plotline, etc. popped out brand new and fresh from the mind of the
fanfic
> writer. Then someone else comes along, steals the story. This new
work is
> still set in the HL universe, is almost a word-for-word copy of the
first
> fanfic writer's story, but it uses all original characters... no P/D
> characters at all.
>
> I know the first fanfic writer can't go after the second one for
using the
> HL universe, but can s/he go after the second writer for stealing
his/her
> original story?
My feeling (not to be confused with legal advice, which it isn't) is
no... I don't think you can separate elements of a work like that.
Either a work is copyrightable or it isn't -- and because it's set in
the HL universe and uses HL characters, IMO the first work isn't
copyrightable.
If your work is so original and the HL universe elements and
characters are so peripheral that they really aren't integral to the
story, then IMO the writer would be far better off writing it as an
original story. There are many ways to be set up immortality as a
plot device outside the HL universe.
It's certainly been done before... there's a published romance novel
out there that started its life as a fanfic story in another fandom.
And of course that novel is entitled to complete copyright protection.
Lynn
------------------------------
Date: Sat, 7 Jul 2001 14:42:36 -0400
From: Trilby <trilby23@bellsouth.net>
Subject: Re: ATTN: All Fan Fic writers
From: Lynn <lloschin@sprynet.com>
> It's certainly been done before... there's a published romance novel
> out there that started its life as a fanfic story in another fandom.
> And of course that novel is entitled to complete copyright protection.
OK, you knew *someone* was going to ask, and it might as well
be curious me. What novel, what author, what fandom?
-------------------- Trilby
"Please don't tell my mother I'm a social worker. She thinks
I play the piano in a whorehouse."
------------------------------
Date: Sat, 7 Jul 2001 15:30:51 -0400
From: "Carrie V. Key" <reeana1@home.com>
Subject: Re: ATTN: All Fan Fic writers
----- Original Message -----
From: Sandy Fields <diamonique@EARTHLINK.NET>
> The original work that you're specifically talking about.... and the work
> of fanfic writers... is... well... apples and oranges. Unless I've missed
> a post somewhere, what happened to you and your possible remedies to the
> situation simply don't apply to fanfic writers.
>
> Did I miss something?
>
The story itself is considered fan fiction. Fan Fiction is a story written
by a fan. You can branch that off into many different areas, but that's the
basis behind it. This movement was started not to really encourage
copyrighting of fan fic stories, but to bring out more awareness of
plagiarism and that in general isn't a nice thing to do to people,
copyrighted material or not. Now weather or not people believe that fan fic
holds any credibility towards anything, is up in the air, with way too many
opinions on the issue.
If you ever make your way over to Fan Fiction Net (www.fanfiction.net) you
will see various cases in point of true plagiarism and cases in point of
great works of fiction. I'm willing to bet that most of the people that
write fan fiction aren't there for any great notoriety, or to make some sort
of profit off of anything. They are there for fun and enjoyment. As with
most fan websites, fan fiction writers normally attach disclaimers to their
stories pointing out what they created and what they didn't and give credit
to those that did. This doesn't mean that they will be excused from legal
action is someone so chooses to. By giving the credit, one does hope that
legal action wont happen.
---
Carrie Key
reeana1@home.com
vatazes@home.com
http://members.home.net/reeana1/my_domain.htm
http://members.home.net/vatazes/welcome.htm
http://www.angelfire.com/celeb2/hornygurlz/index.htm
LadyReeana, Ana Vatazes, Javina Jinn,
PWFC, OFEB, QJEB, Clan of the Eternally Clueless,
Proud Owner of 'Oasis Bathing Ardeth' Clone #1
"Tas! You Doorknob!" Flint Fireforge, Dragonlance
"I came, I saw, I broke a hip." Johnny Bravo
------------------------------
Date: Sat, 7 Jul 2001 12:33:37 -0700
From: Lynn <lloschin@sprynet.com>
Subject: Re: ATTN: All Fan Fic writers
From: "Trilby" <trilby23@bellsouth.net>
> > It's certainly been done before... there's a published romance
novel
> > out there that started its life as a fanfic story in another
fandom.
> > And of course that novel is entitled to complete copyright
protection.
>
> OK, you knew *someone* was going to ask, and it might as well
> be curious me. What novel, what author, what fandom?
Sorry... not telling. I doubt the author wants it to be public
knowledge.
Lynn
------------------------------
Date: Sat, 7 Jul 2001 15:36:51 EDT
From: Ashton7@aol.com
Subject: Re: ATTN: All Fan Fic writers
In a message dated 7/7/01 2:29:22 PM Eastern Daylight Time,
dragonlady@darkmage.net writes:
<< This is not a grey issue ... characters that belong to someone else can not
be used without permission ... if you do, you're committing
copyright/trademark infringement (provided the works aren't in the public
domain). Titles can not be copyrighted, characters and plots can. >>
A character can *not* be copyrighted. It can only be trademarked (such as has
been done with the character of Luke Skywalker within the context of the Star
Wars universe).
You needn't take my word for things. Refer to copyright law and intellectual
propery lawyers for yourself:
------------------------------
Date: Sat, 7 Jul 2001 15:38:35 EDT
From: Ashton7@aol.com
Subject: Re: ATTN: All Fan Fic writers
In a message dated 7/7/01 2:29:22 PM Eastern Daylight Time,
dragonlady@darkmage.net writes:
<< This is not a grey issue ... characters that belong to someone else can not
be used without permission ... if you do, you're committing
copyright/trademark infringement (provided the works aren't in the public
domain). Titles can not be copyrighted, characters and plots can. >>
I think my last message got sent before I was finished. Oh, well. A character
is basically a "name." You can not copyright a character. Really.
Taken from a copyright website:
These are items that by their very nature are not eligible for copyright
protection:
Ideas
Facts
Titles
Names
Short phrases
Blank forms
Annie
------------------------------
Date: Sat, 7 Jul 2001 15:37:21 -0400
From: "Carrie V. Key" <reeana1@home.com>
Subject: Re: ATTN: All Fan Fic writers
----- Original Message -----
From: John Mosby (B) <a.j.mosby@BTINTERNET.COM>
To: <HIGHLA-L@LISTS.PSU.EDU>
Sent: Saturday, July 07, 2001 1:52 PM
Subject: Re: [HL] ATTN: All Fan Fic writers
> Annie wrote:
>
> >You cannot copyright a character or the name of a character, for
instance.
> You
> > can only trademark it... and even then you have legal recourse only if
you
> > can prove that the person using "your" trademarked name has in some way
> cost
> > you money or confused the public into thinking they are offering your
> > product.
>
> Okay, colour me confused.....If YOU created a character and trademarked
it,
> would you or would you not have the slightest problem with me going: "Hey,
> what a great character, think I'll use them in my work that I'm going to
> make available to 50,000 people, but hey let's make them a murderer, a
> rapist, change their sexuality" or make them do something that you find
> inappropriate to your original vision??? I'm guessing I'd hear a very
> forthright opinion from you from a continent away!
>
Having created and written totally original universes before (currently
trying to get them published) I would honestly be accepting of the fan fic.
The only problems I see I would have if those out there didn't give me the
credit due,
were making money of it or just writing my stuff word for word and slapping
new names here and there. Some things would make me more unsettled than
others, but I don't have a lot of room for talk since I am a fan fic writer.
>
>
> Fan-fic is relatively harmless and I think most (c)holders would be
> shooting themselves in the foot to try and regulate it to such an extent
> that it pissed off the fans. party-popper and I've often gone toe-to-toe
> with the lieks of Donna and Gillian on the common-sense side of the fanfic
> equation and the stupidity of silencing a useful section of the
> fan-base...but they have every right to do so if they think it affects
their
> original product in a negative way.
>
Fan fic is harmless and I've seen where it can help increase the fan base of
some shows, movies or books. Just like everything on our wonderful planet,
there is a good side to it and a bad side.
---
Carrie Key
reeana1@home.com
vatazes@home.com
http://members.home.net/reeana1/my_domain.htm
http://members.home.net/vatazes/welcome.htm
http://www.angelfire.com/celeb2/hornygurlz/index.htm
LadyReeana, Ana Vatazes, Javina Jinn,
PWFC, OFEB, QJEB, Clan of the Eternally Clueless,
Proud Owner of 'Oasis Bathing Ardeth' Clone #1
"Tas! You Doorknob!" Flint Fireforge, Dragonlance
"I came, I saw, I broke a hip." Johnny Bravo
------------------------------
End of HIGHLA-L Digest - 6 Jul 2001 to 7 Jul 2001 - Special issue (#2001-181)
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