HIGHLA-L Digest - 6 Jan 2001 - Special issue (#2001-17)
Automatic digest processor (LISTSERV@LISTS.PSU.EDU)
Sat, 6 Jan 2001 13:47:43 -0500
There are 18 messages totalling 808 lines in this issue.
Topics in this special issue:
1. Greetings and Question about Endgame-SPOILERS snipped (3)
2. Greetings and Question about Endgame - NO SPOILERS (2)
3. Greetings and Question about Endgame
4. Greetings and Question about Endgame SPOILERS (11)
5. APOLOGY: / Re: Greetings and Question about Endgame SPOILERS
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Date: Sat, 6 Jan 2001 11:55:19 -0500
From: virginia foster <vfoster@mindspring.com>
Subject: Re: Greetings and Question about Endgame-SPOILERS snipped
>><< >At 02:33 PM 01/04/2001, Lance Aldridge wrote:
>>
>>Leftist Purist HL fans believe the original Hl and his timeline is the only
>>valid HL and timeline. In other words, Connor is it and there are no
>>substitutes. I'm more to the left. I can enjoy the series, but to me Duncan
>>will forever be a less than adequete lesser cousin of Connor's.
>>
>>Here's a great poll. Where do most of the people on this list fall in the
>>spectrum?
Gina:
>Druid. Reformed.
>
me too. <beg>
Let's see... :::looks over the spectrum to find the best way to
bend it out of whack:::
I like Connor. I like Methos. Just not as a couple. ::whistling innocently::
The movie did not suck quite as bad as I feared it would. Yes, I sniffled
through the ending. And said there wasn't nearly enough Methos in it.
Make of that what you will.
virginia
(I also manage a group of riverdancing ewoks and have red hair) <beg>
Virginia Foster *** MSOOF *** MFWC *** CFW
vfoster@mindspring.com ** http://www.mindspring.com/~vfoster/va.html
"General, About what you owe me." Jack
"Anything I can do." General Hammond
"Well nothing right now. But one day I may ask you to buy back my soul."
Jack, 'Divide and Conquer'
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Date: Sat, 6 Jan 2001 10:58:35 -0500
From: Sandy Fields <diamonique@earthlink.net>
Subject: Re: Greetings and Question about Endgame - NO SPOILERS
At 12:16 AM 01/06/01, Lance Aldridge wrote:
>Here's a great poll. Where do most of the people on this list fall in the
>spectrum?
That's an easy one. I'm a Highlander fan.
-- Sandy
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Date: Sat, 6 Jan 2001 12:01:10 -0500
From: Sandy Fields <diamonique@earthlink.net>
Subject: Re: Greetings and Question about Endgame
At 11:41 AM 01/06/01, T.Jastram wrote:
> > Actually, yes, though its widely accepted by HL fans particularly within
>the
> > Consortium.
> >
>
>No, I'm not going to ask. Nope.
ROFLMAO!!!! Smart decision!
-- Sandy
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Date: Sat, 6 Jan 2001 12:01:07 -0500
From: jjswbt@earthlink.net
Subject: Re: Greetings and Question about Endgame SPOILERS
There be minimal spoilers below:
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Lance says:
I'm outspoken enough that everyone here knows my stance
>on HL fandom, and what needs to be done to save the franchise, namely, the
>resurrection of Connor Macleod.
He's dead. Deceased. Defunct. Gone west. Kicked the bucket. Passed over the shining sea. He's pushing up daisies. Just *how* would you suggest he be "resurrected"? Start yet another Highlander time lime which now ignores HL2, 3 *and* 4? The franchise is on its last legs as it is..I doubt too many people would pay to see "Highlander 5-The Giant Reset Button."
The one fairly consistent part of the Highlander universe has been that people *die*..even people we might like to see live. Tessa died. Richie died. Fitz died. Connor died. The one time they tried to bring someone back - Rameriz in HL2 - it was damned silly. Often a character has to die to move a story forward. If HL has a future on the big screen..that future rests with Adrian Paul. Like it or not...today, most people's experience with Highlander comes from seeing the TV series and they identify with AP , not CL.
Besides, CL is too old to keep playing a character who supposedly doesn't age. It was bad enough to have him playing a "teenager" in the first movie..it was painful to see him in Endgame. Even AP probably only has another 5-10 years (given good makeup and careful surgery<eg>) where he can play Duncan. I'd hate to sit down to see HL5 and watch CL toddle across the screen using his katana as a cane.
Lance:
>I basically view HL fans on a spectrum type scale.
Funny..so do I. But I bet I have different definitions of who lives on each end of the bell curve.
> Rightist Liberal HL fans
>play fast and lose with the HL franchise, freely accepting innane changes to
>the original timeline .
Rightest liberals? Ugh..those are the worse kind. They talk the liberal talk but they don't walk the liberal walk. (:::insert Ministry of Funny Walks sketch here:::::)
>Leftist Purist HL fans believe the original Hl and his timeline is the only
>valid HL and timeline.
Leftist purists? Leninists? Marxists? McGovernites?
>Here's a great poll.
AAAAAAAHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH!!!!!!!!!!!!
> Where do most of the people on this list fall in the spectrum?
I tend to the infrared..but..
....along with Gina..I am a registered Druid-Reformed (Just check my college application) . Christmas is our favorite season when we can bring our trees inside without inviting snide comments from our neighbors. When discussing Highlander, I like to wear my golden yellow robes- the precise shade of Highland gorse. Of an evening we might pass a bottle of warm amber fluid around a campfire and reminisce about the olden days when we could walk naked under a living oaken canopy and not see a leftist purist or rightest liberal in a month's time.
#mean-spirited(Sweetness&Light seems to have deserted us.)
Fairy Killer
jjswbt@earthlink.net
http://home.earthlink.net/~jjswbt/index.html
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Date: Sat, 6 Jan 2001 12:07:12 -0500
From: Gina Shaw <ginadc@ix.netcom.com>
Subject: Re: Greetings and Question about Endgame SPOILERS
At 12:01 PM 01/06/2001 -0500, you wrote:
>There be minimal spoilers below:
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>Lance says:
> I'm outspoken enough that everyone here knows my stance
> >on HL fandom, and what needs to be done to save the franchise, namely, the
> >resurrection of Connor Macleod.
And Wendy noted:
>He's dead. Deceased. Defunct. Gone west. Kicked the bucket. Passed over
>the shining sea. He's pushing up daisies.
The Weezul seems to have missed one...
" 'E is an *ex-Connor*! "
(Hey Arlene, are you still out there?)
Gina
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Date: Sat, 6 Jan 2001 12:09:50 -0500
From: KLZ <zklee@huskynet.com>
Subject: Re: Greetings and Question about Endgame SPOILERS
> The Connor-Duncan pairing, if it had to
> Glad you asked. The Connor-Duncan pairing, if it had to
> happen,
Only for Canadian audiences.
> could have
> been so much more interesting. How about having Duncan kill
> one of Connor's
> friends unknowingly, and then having Connor deal with going
> after his former
> student and the consequences thereafter.
It's been done. "Haunted", S5. Great Wryschyieee ep.
> Who needs an evil
> immie,
The Great Unwashed American Public. Witness the wild success of
Star Wars, which was possibly the first movie with defined heros
and villians after nearly two decades of ugly, ambiguous,
depressing, anti-hero, rotten-ending movies during the
post-Kennedy-assassination/Watergate/Vietnam years.
At least Film Noir (sp?) had great costuming.
> Endgame was to
> simple, and unsatisfying. >>
>
I've always thought that the simplest stories are the strongest.
Gillian Horvath, that talented, courageous, and upstanding writer
for TV and movies, often says that there are only about nine
plots in all of drama. Studies in Light and Band of Brothers are
very simple story lines, and they're two of the greatest HL eps.
made. Extremely complex plots just don't translate well to a
2-hour-or-less movie. If you think about pretty much any movie
of any note, the stories are pretty simple, taking one concept:
a love story, a betrayal story, a whodunit, whatever, and using
that as the basis for a hopefully good showcase of technique and
talent.
A lot of stuff got cut, apparently, from the HL Endgame story.
Mostly, it was the subtlety and complexity.
> Another thought hit me. How about having Connor kill one of
> Duncan's friends
> in a quarrel, perhaps Methos or Amanda, and having Duncan deal
> with going
> after hos former teacher and kinsmen.
Since Connor wouldn't go after someone without a good reason -
such as a really reprehensible act, or pure evilness, it's
unlikely that he'd go after Methos, who avoids fights like a cat
avoids wet pavement, or Amanda, who'd have him in bed in 10
minutes. It's also unlikely that Duncan would go after Connor
for something like that without finding out first what happened.
Apart from that, it's no different than the first scenario.
Anyway, Canadians would never do that, and everyone knows that
Duncan and Methos are Canadian. The best you could hope for
would be a triangle.
~grumpy (Aztec, Fundamentalist)
zklee@huskynet.com
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Date: Sat, 6 Jan 2001 12:11:13 -0500
From: KLZ <zklee@huskynet.com>
Subject: APOLOGY: / Re: Greetings and Question about Endgame SPOILERS
DARN IT! I forgot spoiler spaces! I'm sorry, people!
::::: whapping self ::::
ZK
(At least Marina probably won't read this thread so I'll be safe
::: wiping sweat from brow :::)
zklee@huskynet.com
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Date: Sat, 6 Jan 2001 10:59:54 -0600
From: LadyKaren <angelmyst@ntsource.com>
Subject: Re: Greetings and Question about Endgame SPOILERS
At 12:16 AM 1/6/01 -0500, Lance wrote:
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>IMHO, of course, i feel anyone who enjoys Highlander but doesn't like connor
>is missing the point, and thus is not a true fan. But can we get beyond the
>true fan business. I'm outspoken enough that everyone here knows my stance
>on HL fandom, and what needs to be done to save the franchise, namely, the
>resurrection of Connor Macleod.
And how do you propose they do something like this? The last thing I heard
was that Christopher Lambert was not interested in playing the role of
Connor MacLeod any longer. Would you have him resurected with a new actor
playing the roll? If not then what exactly would be the purpose or
resurecting a character that there was a strong chance you would never see
again. And how exactly would maintaining a character you would not see
"save the franchise" ?
LadyKaren aka AngelMyst {CGW} Chief of the Geebie Wannabes
@
\
<<<</////////////////////[}}====@
/
@
anglmyst@primenet.com http://www.primenet.com/~anglmyst
#Highlander and #Holyground on EFnet
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Date: Sat, 6 Jan 2001 17:18:44 -0000
From: Jette Goldie <jettegoldie@thefreeinternet.co.uk>
Subject: Re: Greetings and Question about Endgame-SPOILERS snipped
>Here's a great poll. Where do most of the people on this list fall in the
>spectrum?
Somewhere on the violet end ;-)
Jette
jettegoldie@thefreeinternet.co.uk
http://members.tripod.com/~bosslady/fanfic.html
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Date: Sat, 6 Jan 2001 12:11:32 -0600
From: Kamil <kamil@mmcable.com>
Subject: Re: Greetings and Question about Endgame-SPOILERS snipped
> >Here's a great poll. Where do most of the people on this
list fall in the
> >spectrum?
Proponent of the Way of the Maple Leaf. Born-again. <weg>
Kamil
***************
"I wanna torture you. I used to love it, and it's been a
*long* time. I
mean, the last time I tortured somebody, they didn't even
have chainsaws."
--Angelus,
Becoming II
***************
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Date: Sat, 6 Jan 2001 13:24:33 EST
From: Lance Aldridge <GPrimeCEO@aol.com>
Subject: Re: Greetings and Question about Endgame SPOILERS
In a message dated 1/5/01 3:39:24 PM Central Standard Time, geiger@maui.net
writes:
<<
I respect Debbie's recent directive re: the true fan stuff, & I don't mean
to get that going again. But....
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Lance--
> For most of us, Connor was the first, and only Highlander.
<< Exactly _who_ does "us" above refer to? Just who are you authorized to
speak for? HL fans? HL movie fans? HL fans from another forum? HL fans
who are male? Hl fans w/ 5 letters in their 1st names? (And, like C & D in
the highwaymen FB of HL:EG--I want to see your authorization from the
King.)>>
As leader of the Save Connor movement and a high ranking official within the
ranks of the Save Connor Consortium, I speak for all those persons who enjoy
membership within the organization, and those who feel Connor's death was a
mistake in Endgame. The Consortium consist of Save Connor, Save Connor east,
The Connor Appreciation Society, The Connor Macleod Protection Force and a
number of other satellite Connor-realted organizations. We estimate our
numbers to be in the thousands.
<< If you personally feel that way about Connor--that's peachy; say so.
(Nicely, of course.) It doesn't say a lot for your tolerance, imagination
or ability to grow, but.... if it's true as to you personally, fine.>>
I am open to new ideas, as long as they don't include Connor dying.
<< Since you've just arrived on this list, you aren't speaking for list
members, so your unqualified use of the word "us" re: just about anything is
out of place.>>
I speak for those who agree with me.
------------------------------
Date: Sat, 6 Jan 2001 13:25:49 EST
From: Lance Aldridge <GPrimeCEO@aol.com>
Subject: Re: Greetings and Question about Endgame SPOILERS
In a message dated 1/5/01 4:22:14 PM Central Standard Time,
kilmarnock.oradea@virginnet.co.uk writes:
<<
ok, but hl3 is completely disregarded. >>
No it isn't. Its generally accepted by Leftists that Connor did indeed have
an adopted son, did kill Kane, and did save the earth from its loss of the
ozone layer. All other timelines are merely abborations or lesser offshoots
of the purist original.
------------------------------
Date: Sat, 6 Jan 2001 13:28:46 EST
From: Lance Aldridge <GPrimeCEO@aol.com>
Subject: Re: Greetings and Question about Endgame SPOILERS
In a message dated 1/6/01 12:21:08 AM Central Standard Time,
tunnack@ozemail.com.au writes:
<<
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Lance:
<<..The Connor-Duncan pairing, if it had to happen, could have
been so much more interesting. How about having Duncan kill one of Connor's
friends unknowingly, and then having Connor deal with going after his former
student and the consequences thereafter. Who needs an evil immie, and there
many ways to resolve this situation and have a great story. Endgame was to
simple, and unsatisfying...>>
<< Seriously Lance I don't think that Connor would go after Duncan in these
circumstances - i.e. if Duncan unknowingly killed a friend of Connor's. Now
what *would* be interesting would be if Duncan *knowingly* killed a good
friend of Connor's. I've always thought about what would have happened in
Modern Prometheus if Methos hadn't stepped aside to make way for Duncan to
go to Byron...what if Methos has said "Mac..do this for me! Because I ask
it. Let him live." What would Duncan have done then?>>
Agreed, it would be more interesting if connor knowingly killed methos or
Amanda.
Lance: <<..It was weak and lazy because they chose to repeat what they had
done in the
series...>
<< It was certainly derivative. That in itself doesn't make it weak but I'd
have to agree that, for me, it wasn't a great story line.>>
On this we agree, though I add it was weak.
<<Re Connor's state of mind. After Rachel's death I think that something
broke
inside Connor. All that he had loved were lost, except for Duncan. He knew
that Duncan would never take his head so he chose to remove himself to a
supposed place of safety and merciful oblivion in terms of his pain. Once
even that plan was shattered and he realised that all of the tragedy had
been part of a malicious and murderous plot by an old and very powerful
enemy he must have realised that he had gambled badly. On the one hand his
disappearance seems to have at least lessened any interest Kell had in
killing those that Connor loved. After all, where was the fun in it for
Kell if there was no Connor to suffer. So at least Connor's decade in
Sanctuary probably led to Duncan's survival since we know that Duncan had
been out of the Game back in 1993. Connor was scared silly about his
unpreparedness, as we saw in the Gathering.>>
Agreed.
<<So in some ways Connor was incredibly self-sacrificing in that he bought
Duncan extra time to well and truly get back into the Game and to get his
skills back to where they should be. When he realised that Kell had
discovered Sanctuary and therefore that Connor still lived he knew that
Kell's sole motivation in leaving him alive was to ensure that he witnessed
Duncan's death at the hands of Kell. Ironically Connor would have been
better to have taken Kell on back in 1993 when his own skills were still
excellent. But Kell chose well when he killed Rachel and the broken man who
was left behind was simply not in a fit state to deal with Kell.>>
It still doesn't ring true with Connor's character. He was never a quitter
until Endgame.
<< It seems to me that Connor's choice in 93 was the same one he made in
2003 -
to not let Kell get his Q and to try and ensure Duncan's safety. Lance you
don't need to put Duncan down to raise Connor up.>>
I wasn't aware I had done this.
<< Like Methos, all are
deserving of admiration in their own right and don't need to deplete those
around them. There are many here who are fervent Connor and Duncan fans.
To belittle Duncan is to belittle Connor and his choices.>>
I disagree. They are two distinct personalities.
------------------------------
Date: Sat, 6 Jan 2001 13:29:46 EST
From: Lance Aldridge <GPrimeCEO@aol.com>
Subject: Re: Greetings and Question about Endgame SPOILERS
In a message dated 1/6/01 12:43:22 AM Central Standard Time,
mousehounde@datalinkc.com writes:
<< Geez! Well lets try this:
Lance! You are totally correct! Conner is the only TRUE Highlander! Without
him the franchise will be nowhere! All others are a pale imitation! You have
convinced me! I bow before your wisdom! The movie should have been filmed
using your own shining vision! I see that now! Thank you for showing me the
true path! You WIN!! Congrats! NOW PLEASE GO AWAY! [stage direction: Lance,
having been declared victorious, descends into lurkerdom, secure in the
knowledge that he has shown the misguided the way back to enlightenment.]
mouse
[where the hell is that Kill-file/ blocker thingy and how did it work again?
There it is. Done!] >>
Glad you agree with me. Now join us at
http://www.angelfire.com/scifi/saveconnormacleod
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Date: Sat, 6 Jan 2001 13:30:52 EST
From: Lance Aldridge <GPrimeCEO@aol.com>
Subject: Re: Greetings and Question about Endgame SPOILERS
In a message dated 1/6/01 10:28:54 AM Central Standard Time, Dotiran@aol.com
writes:
<< < How about having Connor kill one of Duncan's friends
in a quarrel, perhaps Methos or Amanda, and having Duncan deal with going
after hos former teacher and kinsmen.
S
P
O
I
L
E
R
S
S
P
A
C
E
Ah yes, *that* would doubly ensure Connor's death. You dinna want to mess
with an angry Duncan. There'd be no nobility either in Connor's death this
time around. >>
Who says Connor would lose? Remember what he did to Kurgan?
------------------------------
Date: Sat, 6 Jan 2001 13:32:57 EST
From: Lance Aldridge <GPrimeCEO@aol.com>
Subject: Re: Greetings and Question about Endgame - NO SPOILERS
In a message dated 1/6/01 10:58:46 AM Central Standard Time,
diamonique@earthlink.net writes:
<<
>Here's a great poll. Where do most of the people on this list fall in the
>spectrum?
That's an easy one. I'm a Highlander fan. >>
But whwre in the spectrum do you fall?
Lefitists
Conservative--------------------------------------------------------Rightist
Liberal
(Original Purists) (Will accept any
substitute)
------------------------------
Date: Sat, 6 Jan 2001 13:43:53 EST
From: Susan Kirt <SUQKRT@aol.com>
Subject: Re: Greetings and Question about Endgame SPOILERS
In a message dated 1/6/01 12:08:50 PM, ginadc@ix.netcom.com writes:
>
>>He's dead. Deceased. Defunct. Gone west. Kicked the bucket. Passed over
>>the shining sea. He's pushing up daisies.
>
>The Weezul seems to have missed one...
>
>" 'E is an *ex-Connor*! "
>
>(Hey Arlene, are you still out there?)
>Gina
Joined the Immortal Bowling League (carries his head around in a bag)
Suz
*putting chair in gear and getting ta heck outta here.
------------------------------
Date: Sat, 6 Jan 2001 12:48:24 -0600
From: "T.Jastram" <idlehanz@flashmail.com>
Subject: Re: Greetings and Question about Endgame SPOILERS
> I respect Debbie's recent directive re: the true fan stuff, & I don't
mean
> to get that going again. But....
BUT.... oooh <slinking behind the rocking chairs, just to get out of the
way>
>
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> As leader of the Save Connor movement and a high ranking official within
the
> ranks of the Save Connor Consortium, I speak for all those persons who
enjoy
> membership within the organization, and those who feel Connor's death was
a
> mistake in Endgame. The Consortium consist of Save Connor, Save Connor
east,
> The Connor Appreciation Society, The Connor Macleod Protection Force and a
> number of other satellite Connor-realted organizations. We estimate our
> numbers to be in the thousands.
So, Lance... These thousands of members.. Can anyone else *see* them?
> I speak for those who agree with me.
And they would beeee.... who?
Tricia <high ranking member of the BS Awareness Consortium>
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End of HIGHLA-L Digest - 6 Jan 2001 - Special issue (#2001-17)
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