HIGHLA-L Digest - 26 Feb 2001 (#2001-82)
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Mon, 26 Feb 2001 22:00:07 -0500
There are 6 messages totalling 367 lines in this issue.
Topics of the day:
1. Endgame- Spoilers- Upon rewatching (2)
2. Endgame- Spoilers- Upon rewatching above I forgot spoilers
3. Endgame - Chain Room
4. Endgame - Chain Room SPOILERS (2)
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Date: Mon, 26 Feb 2001 16:31:02 EST
From: Highlandmg@aol.com
Subject: Re: Endgame- Spoilers- Upon rewatching
OK Number 19
Matthew Need two Immortals he was going to shoot both of them and keep them
in a different sanctuary.
Mary
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Date: Mon, 26 Feb 2001 16:34:38 EST
From: Highlandmg@aol.com
Subject: Re: Endgame- Spoilers- Upon rewatching above I forgot spoilers
OHHHHH I am sorry I forgot spoiler spaces
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Date: Mon, 26 Feb 2001 10:58:26 -1000
From: Geiger <geiger@maui.net>
Subject: Re: Endgame- Spoilers- Upon rewatching
Wendy--
>>> The nice thing about having a movie at home is the ability to watch over
and over and over at one's leisure. The bad thing is that one can see the
same "mistakes" over and over and over>>>
Yes. This version clears up a few from the theater, but is also adds some
new ones. Too many goofs to drink to each one--never make it through to the
end conscious. Makes for a good game of kiss the cat, though.
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> So..I was rewatching Endgame and still came away with a hundred things
that >either don't make sense or just plain bother me. I'll number them just
for fun.
I was surprised when I got to the end & you had just 24--it could have been
a literal 100.
>>> 1) Connor's comment to Duncan before Rachel explodes: "People change.
You'll learn that." It makes it seem as if Duncan is much younger than
Connor..rather than less than 75 years younger. It's not as if Duncan is a
kid..nor is it like Duncan hasn't seen *lots* of people change. A small
point but it bothered me.>>>
Yes, it's like how Joe was so damned sure Kell was too much for DM--despite
Joe knowing DM had disposed of the 4 Horsemen & Ahriman. So much about the
movie didn't _mesh_ w/ the series--despite there being a writer in common.
>>> 2) Rachel. Why did she go into the store when she found the door
unlocked? When Connor didn't answer her - and the VCR was eerily playing
old home movies - why didn't she realize something was amiss. Why did she
seem so afraid of the telephone? Hadn't it never rung before- it *was* a
store, wasn't it?>>>
She had "victim" written all over her forehead. It was a nice homage to HL1
that they used her here, but making her even slightly clued in would have
also made her a greater loss for CL & thus to the audience.
> 3) Why didn't Connor feel Kell outside the shop when it exploded. Kell was
standing > only a few yards away.
These things (length of time an Immie stays dead, too) always seemed timed
more for the writers' convenience than for logic.
Why was Kell there, since he was risking his apparently cherished long-time
anonymity? Was he there to gloat? Or to make sure CL wasn't inside for the
explosion? If he'd been in there, he could well have lost his head in the
blast, thus spoiling Kell's fun. As for that anonymity, wouldn't Kell have
had more fun all along if CL had _known_ it was Kell stalking hm & killing
his loved ones? Just seems odd, for Kell's character, to have kept a low
profile for centuries.
>>> 4)Glenfinnan 1555 Connor feels "something" just before Kell and the
Priest enter his mother's house. But he doesn't know what. He says he felt
it once before. Now..are we to take from this that Rameriz was remiss it
explaining the Buzz to Connor? And..in fact..hadn't he felt it several times
before (Rameriz *and* the Kurgan). After spending time with Rameriz..who did
Connor *not* know that there was another Immortal outside the door?>>>
Toss in Kell's cemetery comment about them both being new to the Game &
missing the signs.... This issue was a mess in the theater release, & it's
still a mess in the producers' cut.
>>> 5) Sanctuary.All those years in business and they never installed an
alarm system *inside* to warn of approaching hostiles? No steel doors? No
guards behind bullet proof glass?>>>
No need, if they were depending on being located on Holy Ground for
protection.... Apparently, they weren't, but this leaves us w/ the Watchers
being idiots.
>>> 6)Why did Duncan get visions of the Sanctuary being destroyed while he
was in Paris/London /wherever. *Connor* couldn't even see what was
happening..so how could Duncan?>>>
This bugged me in the theater release. HL doesn't need "visions" anyway &
as usual gets into trouble adding on that sort of extraneous supernatural
crap. Also, DM tells Methos he had the visions 10 years to the day that CM
disappeared; that 10 yr. anniversary is totally irrelevant to anything in
the plot, so it's a confusing red herring in an already convoluted story.
> 8) How does Duncan have a flashback to the shop exploding when he wasn't
there?>
Another irksome factual thing that didn't get in someone's way putting this
film together.
>>> 10) The Watcher says things have changed- an Immortal (Kell) has gone
renegade. Define renegade. Just what has Kell done that we haven't seen
other Immortals do in the past? >>>
It was the posse thing, I think. We saw Immie companions (Canadian &
otherwise) hunting in pairs sometimes, but aside from the rather perverted
hybrid arangement Horton & Xavier briefly had, I don't recall any packs.
(Except for the motorcycle gang in that Raven ep centered on Liam, but they
weren't all that involved in the Game, apparently--& Raven doesn't count
anyway.) Packs aren't popular, probably, because it doesn't make sense for
Immies to act that way--TCBOO, etc.; it's just too lilely that it'll end up
exactly like it did in Endgame--messy.
Not that I think the posse meant Kell was a super-power; I think it means he
was a wimpy coward. But it scared the Watchers, including Joe, shitless,
probably because as a group Watchers don't deal very well w/ change or the
unexpected.
> 11) If the Immortals in Sanctuary are drugged senseless all the
time....why do they need restraints and eye guards? Why do they need eye
guards at all?
Don't forget the blue nose goo! The whole Sanctuary setup seemed an odd (or
sloppy) mix of the creepily archaic & the medically advanced.
>>> 12)When Duncan wants to see Connor's body- we see Duncan & Co. driving.
Then we see Kell in NY at his cathedral.Then we see the guys arrive in the
cemetery..and then a few minutes later Kell arrives. Can he fly?>>>
Only in the 3rd trailer....
> 13)Kell really is a loon, isn't he.
God, yes. W/ odd ears, too.
>>> 16) Why did Kell levitate after whacking his 4 disciples..but not after
whacking 11 Immortals in the Sanctuary?>>>
It bothers me that we never see even a hint of what happened to Manny (the
posse guy played by AP's sifu). I always get this picture of him, at the
1st sign of trouble, grabbing a loaf of bread & ducking under the table to
quietly munch & ride out the BHgs & Qs.
> 17) How did Kell manage to cut the necklace off Kate and *not* behead her?
And why did he leave her alive?>
Because he was a sucker for a happy ending?
> 18) The JVC sign. Funny how they blocked it out in the long shots but had
to leave it in for the close up. It is clearly visible hen Duncan and Connor
talk before they fight.>
Yes.
> 19)What was up with the Watcher trying to kill Duncan? If he was so afraid
of Kell winning..wouldn't killing *Kell* make more sense?>
That's why that scene should have stayed on the cutting room floor.
Shooting DM then would have allowed Kell to BH him & become even more
powerful. (Kell might have let DM live to carry on the torture thingee, but
Hale didn't know that.) The only thing that makes sense is Hale planned to
shoot DM & recapture him for Sanctuary, so I wonder if that scene wasn't
intended to be placed elsewhere--some other time that Hale was stalking DM
after his Sanctuary escape. There's nothing about that scene that requires
Hale to have been spying on the final fight.
>>> 21) Why did Duncan stop to tie up an insignificant leg wound in the
middle of a fight? He had already been gut-sliced and had both arms
cut...have we ever seen an Immortal bother with field dressings during (or
even after) a fight? Don't they just..heal?>>>
Another example of the many times the movie seems unsure of how these basics
work in Highlanderville. W/ GH one of the script writers, w/ BP (by all
accounts) on set every moment, & w/ AP (the unofficial continuity master for
HL:TS) right there too, I don't understand the confusion. That basic stuff
should have been 2nd nature. Also, why does DM talk to himself during the
tie-up-the-leg/remove-the-coat bit?
> 22) Connor's grave. Did that look like the same place Heather was buried
>originally? And I won't even mention the bad superimposement.Or the PEACE
shirt.
The whole scene is tacky. And laughable.
> 24)This should have been up near the top - are there cathedrals for rent
as apartments in NYC?>
And do they all have attached power plants? In working order but w/ nary a
soul around?
> Wendy(Still and all, the hotsweatysexscene was nice)
Yes, lots of the movie was nice. Lots wasn't. I really think the
production problems, apparently caused by a combination of false economies &
bad luck, doomed this project from the start. They rewrote & rewrote, then
filmed over several months--here, there & everywhere. And it showed. Plus,
"they" seemed to be concentrating on the wrong things. Did _anyone_ really
notice & appreciate that DM fought in a certain style, while CL fought in
another style that was related yet slightly different? I for one whould
have prefered more attention to things like plot, characterization,
continuity.
Nina (did the DVD show more of AP's ending kata?)
geiger@maui.net
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Date: Mon, 26 Feb 2001 14:52:45 -0800
From: Chris Almy <chrisalmy@yahoo.com>
Subject: Endgame - Chain Room
Among my many rants about the movie, this one may or
not be answered on this list. Does anyone know if the
room with all the chains hanging down would actually
be a room found in a power station? I can't fathom any
reason for such a room to exist other than the
director thought it would look cool.
=====
"The future is all around us, waiting in moments of transition to be born in moments of revelation."
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Date: Mon, 26 Feb 2001 14:25:39 -1000
From: Geiger <geiger@maui.net>
Subject: Re: Endgame - Chain Room SPOILERS
ENDGAME SPOILERS
> >> >S
> >> >P
> >> >O
> >> >I
> >> >L
> >> >E
> >> >R
> >> >S
> >> >F
> >> >O
> >> >R
> >> >E
> >> >N
> >> >D
> >> >G
> >> >A
> >> >M
> >> >E
> >> >B
> >> >E
> >> >L
> >> >O
> >> >W
> >> >/
> >> >/
>
Chris--
> Among my many rants about the movie, this one may or
> not be answered on this list. Does anyone know if the
> room with all the chains hanging down would actually
> be a room found in a power station? I can't fathom any
> reason for such a room to exist other than the
> director thought it would look cool.
The chains appear to operate several elevators. Now, exactly what sort of
elevators would exist in that setting is beyond me.
I'm still stuck on how come a cathedral under construction (& it's not HG
because not yet consecrated, I assume) would be built both atop & below a
working power plant. The reality, I think, is that the cathedral part of
the final fight was filmed in Romania & then the power plant part in
England, but still.
Nina
geiger@maui.net
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Date: Mon, 26 Feb 2001 19:31:08 EST
From: Dotiran@aol.com
Subject: Re: Endgame - Chain Room SPOILERS
In a message dated 2/26/01 7:26:35 PM US Eastern Standard Time,
geiger@maui.net writes:
S
P
O
I
L
E
R
S
<< The chains appear to operate several elevators.
Yes, and Adrian Paul had mentioned prior to the release of the film that the
chains were real metal and not plastic and that the swords kept getting
caught up in them.
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End of HIGHLA-L Digest - 26 Feb 2001 (#2001-82)
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