HIGHLA-L Digest - 9 Jun 2005 to 10 Jun 2005 (#2005-65)
Automatic digest processor (LISTSERV@lists.psu.edu)
Fri, 10 Jun 2005 22:00:13 -0400
There are 11 messages totalling 463 lines in this issue.
Topics of the day:
1. The Whole Nine Yards (5)
2. Highlander animated movie trailer up (4)
3. the stuff we were talking about...yeah, kinda OT (2)
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Date: Thu, 9 Jun 2005 20:19:39 -0700
From: Sherri C <sherric@empnet.com>
Subject: Re: The Whole Nine Yards
None of the answer pages seem to have an answer. I have seen another
explanation,
but I'm drawing a blank - I think it was in one of my nautical dictionary's
tho...
(I just found one in a 2004 dictionary - using the ship yards as the
explanation)
I'm thinking the phrase has little to no relation to Scotland.... I called
a friend who does
costuming and she said that a great kilt takes less than nine yards... (she
did say it
had to wrap the person 3 times... )
http://www.yaelf.com/index.shtml (search for the phrase on this one)
http://www.straightdope.com/classics/a2_252.html
http://www.worldwidewords.org/articles/nineyards.htm
http://www.phrases.org.uk/meanings/411150.html
At 08:42 AM 6/9/2005, you wrote:
>::: cantering in on three-legged "What does 'The Whole Nine Yards'
>mean?" :::
>Is there anything definitive about the Scottish origins of the phrase?
>
>ZK (so, how's everybody? The list seems active lately!)
Sherri sherric@empnet.com
"...freedom is not free, for in times of darkness, in the fires of war,
freedom is forged of iron, iron oft quenched by the blood of the innocent,
a terrible price to pay. Yet to let evil rule is even more costly." (from
"Into the Fire" by Dennis L McKiernan)
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 9 Jun 2005 22:31:46 -0700
From: Cindy <cierdwyna@yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: The Whole Nine Yards
--- Sherri C <sherric@empnet.com> wrote:
>
> I'm thinking the phrase has little to no relation to
> Scotland.... I called
> a friend who does
> costuming and she said that a great kilt takes less
> than nine yards... (she
> did say it
> had to wrap the person 3 times... )
>
I work at the Bristol Renaissance Faire here in
Wisconsin (in Thistlecroft - the Celtic "encampment").
We have a kilt folding demonstration every day and
yes, we do use a length of cloth that is close to nine
yards long. We start with a a flat bit equal to the
distance between the man's elbow and middle finger and
from there we start the pleats. Each pleat is about a
hand span apart and they continue until there is
another flat bit about the same length as the first.
A wide belt is then slid underneath the cloth about
half-way width-wise...the man then lays onto the
fabric, the "flaps" are wrapped around him, the belt
cinched tight and he then stands.
[ [ [ [ [ [ [ [ [ [ [ [
[ [ [ [ [ [ [ [ [ [ [ [
[ [ [ [ [ [ [ [ [ [ [ [
_____[ [ [ [ [ [ [ [ [ [ [ [_____
_____[ [ [ [ [ [ [ [ [ [ [ [_____
[ [ [ [ [ [ [ [ [ [ [ [
[ [ [ [ [ [ [ [ [ [ [ [
[ [ [ [ [ [ [ [ [ [ [ [
[ [ [ [ [ [ [ [ [ [ [ [
The overhang of fabric is then (usually) brought up
over either one or both shoulders and fastened with a
"brat" -- one of those big celtic pin-things.
It is especially fun at the end of the demonstration
to stretch out the fabric and let the audience see
exactly how much fabric the man was wearing. They are
truly amazed. And our demonstrator makes the point
that the length of fabric would go along with the
amount of wealth the kilt-wearer would have - the more
wealth, the more he could spend on excess fabric.
Raven
__________________________________________________
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------------------------------
Date: Fri, 10 Jun 2005 00:45:47 -0500
From: Ginny <RED57@aol.com>
Subject: Re: The Whole Nine Yards
Cindy wrote on 6/10/2005, 12:31 AM:
<Snip excess fabric of discussion here...>
> I work at the Bristol Renaissance Faire here in
> Wisconsin (in Thistlecroft - the Celtic "encampment").
>
> We have a kilt folding demonstration every day and
> yes, we do use a length of cloth that is close to nine
> yards long. We start with a a flat bit equal to the
> distance between the man's elbow and middle finger and
> from there we start the pleats. Each pleat is about a
> hand span apart and they continue until there is
> another flat bit about the same length as the first.
>
> A wide belt is then slid underneath the cloth about
> half-way width-wise...the man then lays onto the
> fabric, the "flaps" are wrapped around him, the belt
> cinched tight and he then stands.
>
<snip>
>
I think I've seen that demo, or a similar one at some SCA event. We
attend Bristol at least once a summer, must remember to try to look you
up. In an odd way, that Faire led to a whole 'nother online persona for
me, which is too off topic even for THIS crew.
--
Ginny
RED57@aol.com
Fresh out of .sig lines
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 9 Jun 2005 23:34:04 -0700
From: FKMel <sgt_buck_frobisher@yahoo.com>
Subject: Highlander animated movie trailer up
Has anyone seen the trailer for the upcoming
animated/anime Highlander movie? It's on the offical
site, I think there's a link somewhere on the
frontpage.
My first reaction was "What, ANOTHER MacLeod? How many
can they come up with?" This time it's Colin. And it's
set way in the future.
I'm trying to reserve judgement until I see it but I
just have a sinking feeling they're going to diverge
from canon again like with the animated series.
Mel
__________________________________
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------------------------------
Date: Fri, 10 Jun 2005 07:33:14 -0500
From: Debra Douglass <ddoug@catrio.org>
Subject: Re: the stuff we were talking about...yeah, kinda OT
On 6/8/2005, on HIGHLA-L@lists.psu.edu, Wendy wrote:
>> I asked:
>> > >(Anyone heard from Fearless Leader Debbie recently?)
>>
>> Marina says:
>> > Yes. On another list. More than that I'm not authorized to tell you.
>>
>> Marina?
>>
>> Bite me!
Marina and I are both on a small private social list.
I'm around. I just bought a house (my first) and things are a bit
hectic. Having the term 'Fearless Leader' applied to me brings up
images of Robert De Niro in his role as 'Fearless Leader' in the
live-action movie "The Adventures of Rocky & Bullwinkle
(2000). <chuckle>
--
.------------------------------------------------------------------.
|Debra Douglass ddoug@catrio.org http://www.catrio.org|
`------------------------------------------------------------------'
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Date: Fri, 10 Jun 2005 10:30:49 -0400
From: Wendy <Immortals_Incorporated@cox.net>
Subject: Re: the stuff we were talking about...yeah, kinda OT
I asked:
> >>(Anyone heard from Fearless Leader Debbie recently?)
And The Goddess appears!
> I'm around. I just bought a house (my first) and things are a bit
> hectic.
She's alive! She's alive!!
Congrats on the house.
Commiseration on the hectic-ness.
Wendy (Now about those early HIGHLA archives....)(Any hope of gaining
access?)( Or copies.)(Yes, yes,
copies.)(Please.....)(Please.......)(I'll be Sweetness & Light if you
want ....)
Immortals Inc.
immortals_incorporated@cox.net
"Weasels for Eternity"
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 10 Jun 2005 10:30:49 -0400
From: Wendy <Immortals_Incorporated@cox.net>
Subject: Re: Highlander animated movie trailer up
Mel asks:
> Has anyone seen the trailer for the upcoming
> animated/anime Highlander movie? It's on the offical
> site, I think there's a link somewhere on the
> frontpage.
Oh. My. God.
It's ::::::::::::::shudder:::::::::::::::: indescribable.
> My first reaction was "What, ANOTHER MacLeod? How many
> can they come up with?" This time it's Colin. And it's
> set way in the future.
>From the Official Site:
<<<<<In revenge, patience is a virtue.
And after a few thousand years,
Colin MacLeod doesn't give a damn about virtue...>>>>>
As Mel notes, another MacLeod? Is it something in the water in the
Highlander that encourages "fairies" to drop off Immortals there? And
only in the Clan MacLeod territory?
Doesn't give a damn about virtue? OK. Maybe they *are* making a series
about Methos after all .
<<<<< For the first time, the MacLeod katana blade will find itself in
the hands of a Japanese master.>>>>>>
Excuse me? Didn't the MacLeod katana start out in the hands of a
Japanese master? And ... just how does someone named Colin MacLeod
qualify as a "Japanese" master? Oh yeah, this is so far in the future
that nationalities and "races" are obsolete - except that everyone is
Japanese <eg>
> I'm trying to reserve judgement until I see it but I
> just have a sinking feeling they're going to diverge
> from canon again like with the animated series.
Ya think?
And in case you missed it ... Immortals fight robots and fly.
How did it come down to this?
Wendy(We all knew that sooner or later, Immortals would fly.)
Immortals Inc.
immortals_incorporated@cox.net
"Weasels for Eternity"
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 10 Jun 2005 10:53:11 EDT
From: Brian Smith <ShadowPK@aol.com>
Subject: Re: Highlander animated movie trailer up
Looks cool, basically like Ninja Scroll set in the future. I wish they'd
call it something else besides Highlander, though. Davis and Panzer are
licensing out the name now, groan.
Bri
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 10 Jun 2005 11:07:48 -0400
From: siona <siona@siona.org>
Subject: Re: The Whole Nine Yards
At 11:42 AM 06/09/2005, someone wrote:
>::: cantering in on three-legged "What does 'The Whole Nine Yards'
>mean?" :::
This was from an old phrase discussion list I used to belong to:
"The whole nine yards
--------------------
There are many possible explanations, yet no consensus on the true origin of
this phrase.
It has been attributed to World War II fighter planes. Nine yards was the exact
length of a belt of 50-caliber ammunition for the Corsair fighter. If a target
was shot at with the entire band, it was said to have been given "the whole
nine
yards".
Alternatively, a tailor making a high quality suit uses more fabric. The best
suits are made from nine yards of fabric. This may seem like a lot but a proper
suit does indeed take nine yards of fabric. This is because a good suit has all
the fabric cut in the same direction with the warp, or long strands of thread,
parallel with the vertical line of the suit. This causes a great amount of
waste
in suit making, but if you want to go "the whole nine yards", you must pay for
such waste.
The phrase certainly applies to the preparation of a full set of men's
clothing.
To fully understand this, you need to know what constituted a "full set of
clothing" for a man in the 17th and 18th Centuries where the phrase can
first be
traced.
The items of clothing for a man were a Westkit (waistcoat), Breeches
(pants) and
a Great Coat. The material requirements to tailor these garments (even with a
minimal amount of waste) is nine yards of material (45" width in the 1800s). A
Westkit requires 1.5 yards, Breeches requires 2.0 yards and the Coat requires
5.5 yards for a total of 9.0 yards. These amounts can be confirmed with many
museums, historians or period re-enactors.
The reason that the Coats required so much material was that they went from
shoulder down to the back of the knee in length, and then the lower portion of
the coat was full and pleated, almost like a dress. The pattern for the coat
below the waist is almost a full circle
Yet another alternative explanation:
"The whole nine yards" refers to the amount of fabric in a proper Scottish
kilt.
The kilt, much like the suit, must have the fabric oriented in the proper
direction. The plaid or Tartan as it's called has to be matched perfectly,
so it
doesn't look crooked. This alone takes a huge amount of cloth. The nine
yards is
the area of the fabric the tailor starts with, much of which ends up as scrap.
Additionally, a kilt does not simply wrap around the waist. It also includes
fabric that is worn up and over the shoulder. Old style kilts were used as
blankets, toweling, or whatever else came to mind. There is a tale about
one man
using his to escape from a window of his lady-friend's bedchamber when her
husband came home early. Needless to say he had to streak across to his horse
and home. Unfortunately, this turned out rather like those "Dumb Crook" cases
you hear about now. Because each kilt was a specific Tartan, the husband had no
trouble at all identifying the culprit.
One more possible origin: Many old sailing ships had three masts, the fore,
main, and mizzen. Each mast held three square sails. The horizontal stays that
support the square sails are called yards. Hence the ships had nine yards.
Depending on the sailing conditions, more or less sails would be raised. In the
best conditions peak speed could be achieved by raising all nine main
sails, the
whole nine yards."
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 10 Jun 2005 14:25:33 -0400
From: Jo MacArthur <macarthur@erinet.com>
Subject: Re: The Whole Nine Yards
But that is about how long the fabric was. It was pleated on the ground
_at one end_ on top of the belt. Then the Scot lay upon the pleatings and
wrapped the belt around him, creating the skirt of the kilt. BUT the rest
was draped and then thrown over the shoulder and still may have reached to
his knees. That was the "plaid" part, and was often used as a blanket, or
head covering (in the rain) or padding when sleeping on the ground.
The "great kilt" was pretty much a product of the 17th century and
back. Newer kilts were smaller, though they may have had a separate "plaid."
I think I got that all right.
~ Jo
At 09:19 PM 6/9/2005 -0400, you wrote:
>At 08:57 PM 6/9/2005, Ginny wrote:
>>But the "great kilt" refernce is beguiling too. It could also refer to
>>the amount of cloth to make a decent sari drape properly.
>
>Don't know about that one, Ginny. Nine yards is an *awful* lot of
>material. The person would have to be big as a house to need that much.
>
>-- Sandy
~~
~ Jo MacArthur <macarthur@erinet.com>
http://members.aol.com/MacGreggor/homepg1.htm
http://my.erinet.com/~macarthur/
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 10 Jun 2005 10:04:15 -1000
From: MacWestie <mac.westie@verizon.net>
Subject: Re: Highlander animated movie trailer up
Um. The pigeons swarming at the start of the clip--are THEY immortal?
Because THAT would be different.....
>>>> Colin MacLeod doesn't give a damn about virtue...>>>>>
And neither do DPP. Talk about selling out to the highest bidder.
Actually, I imagine they sell out to ANY bidders, at this point.
Nina (LOVED the pithy dialogue, though)
mac.westie@verizon.net
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End of HIGHLA-L Digest - 9 Jun 2005 to 10 Jun 2005 (#2005-65)
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