HIGHLA-L Digest - 17 Aug 2004 (#2004-152)
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Tue, 17 Aug 2004 22:00:03 -0400
There are 4 messages totalling 222 lines in this issue.
Topics of the day:
1. Double Jeopardy and Mary Sue (2)
2. Time and again...
3. DVD commentaries?
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Date: Tue, 17 Aug 2004 23:00:29 +0200
From: T'Mar <tmar@sifl.iid.co.za>
Subject: Re: Double Jeopardy and Mary Sue
Janice wrote:
>That was my though exactly. I *hated* the character,
>and practically cringed every time she came on screen.
I remember when Gene Roddenberry created Star Trek originally and wanted
to have a strong female character on the bridge. He cast Majel Barrett
to be the first officer, thinking women would love the fact that there
was a strong women in a position of authority on the ship. He said that
the reaction he got instead was, "WHO does she think SHE is?" Why do
we feel compelled to hate certain female characters? I also hate some
on sight, and have no idea why. Do we feel they are trying to take
"our" character away from us? It's a puzzler, as Cordelia would say.
To Wendy re this topic: YOU GO, GIRL! And you may be onto something viz.
slash and Mary Sue. Any female character you bring in that the
protagonist might fall for is accused of being a Mary Sue. I tend not
to even bother reading stories about OFCs. Bleagh. But I love slash.
Is it because no one accuses slash writers of doing Mary Sues? Who
knows? I'd be interested to know if anyone has done research (and
there's been quite a bit of research on fanfic and slash) to see if
there is any correlation. I tend to go for the simple explanation:
if one naked man is hot, two are doubly hot! I mean, no one accuses
men who like to watch f/f action of being weird or needy or perverted.
There's your double standard right there!
- Marina.
\\ "You've heard it said that living well is ||>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> //
// the best revenge? Au contraire - living || R I C H I E >> \\
\\ forever is the best revenge." - Lacroix ||>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> //
//==============tmar@sifl.iid.co.za============|| \\
\\=============Chief Flag Waver and Defender of Richie============//
"Why does everybody have to be an elf in fanfic, anyway? Like these
people don't have enough problems." - McSwain (The Fanfic Symposium)
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 17 Aug 2004 23:00:32 +0200
From: T'Mar <tmar@sifl.iid.co.za>
Subject: Re: Time and again...
Jen wrote:
>I hadn't been paying attention to this thread at all, but then I saw your
>response, Marina. *glees* I've become such a fangirl for Stargate because
>all of a sudden I realized that it is a pretty well written show, with
>likeable characters and good acting. It's Sci-Fi's Last, best hope for good
>Scifi, and a lingering program from the 1990s. *sighs*
Yes, yes, yes! I totally agree. And the people who work on it really
care about the characters and their motivations.
>I -looove- the humor. I love how the characters
>have real personalities. :-D
Yes. They get annoyed and argue and make mistakes... just like real
people.
>Season Sux? *giggles* It's the missing Daniel factor. Hehe.
I know. But, Daniel was the main character in the movie! You can't just
get rid of him and expect the audience to be happy about it! I'm glad
the audience went nuts and insisted on him coming back.
>... most shows, after a member of the principal cast
>leaves, the writers will act as if the character never existed, and will
>hardly mention the char. And when there is one of those "clip episodes"
>that cast member who left will not have any clips shown. And yet, this was
>the opposite for Stargate. I sat down to watch what I thought to be a Sixth
>season ep with Corin Nemic, but yet, he never appeared once in the ep. It
>was a clip show, and all the new footage was with Don S. Davis and a group
>of diplomats; Hammond was coming clean about the Stargate. Daniel was
>brought up within the first ten minutes of the ep and a picture of him with
>his file was on a screen behind Major Davis for like, five minutes. *L* But
>it didn't stop there. Many of the clips shown had Michael Shanks in them,
>and in one or two, he actually spoke! And then Thor appeared and had a
>really long speach!
Yes, I noticed that as well! It's much more realistic that way. Even Jonas
(who I do NOT think was responsible for what happened to Daniel - what, was
he supposed to physically restrain Daniel from jumping through the glass
and do it himself?) often mentioned him, and always with a respectful tone.
You could see that he really admired Daniel and was doing his best to
continue Daniel's work in his absence. I miss Jonas sometimes - he and
Daniel got on well. They could have kept him around.
>Besides being all around cool with characters and writing, I love Stargate
>because they're fan friendly. Fans have made a difference when it has come
>to Stargate. This really impresses me. :-D
Me too. They remember the fans, not just the fans' wallets.
>The actors who play McKay and Sheppard have that special chemistry that is
>between Michael Shanks and RDA, I think.
Let's hope! Not that I want to read slash about them or anything! But I
do like it when characters click. I'm really (and I don't know why)
developing a crush on McKay. I think I'm going to hunt up my DVD of the
movie "Cube"...
>Wow, Marina. That's awesome. What kind of stories did they write?
Some were pretty straightforward, but some put very cute little bits in.
I showed them "Hathor" so it was interesting to see their interpretation
of some of the stuff in that one:
"Hathor blew her evil pink love breath on Daniel so he was under her
controll (sp). She got him to help her create more baby Goa'ulds. She
went into her Goa'uld bath."
"Sam and Janet shot Hathor but she didn't die, she excaped (sp) out
the stargate. Daniel was heart-broken."
"Sam and Janet knew they had to stop Hathor so they went and got guns.
Girl power! And they saved Teal'c."
I want to scan or retype some of them because they're so cute. The
eleven year-olds' version of Stargate! :) Actually, I think because
they enjoyed the episode and topic, I got some of their best work
this year with that. It encompassed different skills such as:
visual interpretation, listening skills, reading skills, planning,
paragraphing, translation of visuals to written texts, written texts
to oral interpretations, group work, etc. That's every different mode
of English based on *one* episode. Makes me grateful I couldn't find
the tape of the Sentinel that I was originally going to use... :)
- Marina.
\\ "You've heard it said that living well is ||>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> //
// the best revenge? Au contraire - living || R I C H I E >> \\
\\ forever is the best revenge." - Lacroix ||>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> //
//==============tmar@sifl.iid.co.za============|| \\
\\=============Chief Flag Waver and Defender of Richie============//
"Why does everybody have to be an elf in fanfic, anyway? Like these
people don't have enough problems." - McSwain (The Fanfic Symposium)
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 17 Aug 2004 17:54:34 -0400
From: Heidi <heidi@bronze.lcs.mit.edu>
Subject: Re: DVD commentaries?
From: Ann Ford <aford@AUSTIN.RR.COM>
It seems that the audio commentaries are the full episode and the
video commentaries are edited to be only 20 mins or so. So,
if you want to hear and see everything you have to watch both.
I had thought that they were the same but for the video commentary
they only showed the parts that actually had comments. It seems a
bit odd that they'd cut some of those out for the video version.
From: Dotiran@aol.com
The audio and video commentaries are often different and sometimes
the audio ones are quite enjoyable.
I think some I've watched the audio and some the video. So I guess
I'll have to go back and rewatch the audio version to see (hear)
what comments I may have missed by watching the video version. Thanks
for the info.
=}{=
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Date: Tue, 17 Aug 2004 15:32:53 -0700
From: Janice Cox <jlc_fresno@yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: Double Jeopardy and Mary Sue
I know I hated this character not because she was too
strong, but because (again, IMHO) she was an
embarassment to real, stromg, capable women
everywhere.
You may be right about some fans disliking female
characters who are romantic "competition," but that's
not true in my case. I'm happy to see a lead I care
about find true love, or even just a good one night
stand. :-) She just needs to be believable as a
person.
Janice
--- T'Mar <tmar@sifl.iid.co.za> wrote:
> Janice wrote:
> >That was my though exactly. I *hated* the
> character,
> >and practically cringed every time she came on
> screen.
>
> I remember when Gene Roddenberry created Star Trek
> originally and wanted
> to have a strong female character on the bridge. He
> cast Majel Barrett
> to be the first officer, thinking women would love
> the fact that there
> was a strong women in a position of authority on the
> ship. He said that
> the reaction he got instead was, "WHO does she think
> SHE is?" Why do
> we feel compelled to hate certain female characters?
> I also hate some
> on sight, and have no idea why. Do we feel they are
> trying to take
> "our" character away from us? It's a puzzler, as
> Cordelia would say.
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End of HIGHLA-L Digest - 17 Aug 2004 (#2004-152)
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