HIGHLA-L Digest - 15 Aug 2004 to 16 Aug 2004 - Special issue (#2004-150)
Automatic digest processor (LISTSERV@lists.psu.edu)
Mon, 16 Aug 2004 21:23:05 -0400
There are 12 messages totalling 823 lines in this issue.
Topics in this special issue:
1. Time and again... (9)
2. Q-Chips (was: The Immortal Cimoli)
3. Season Four dvd commentary: Double Jeopardy (2)
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Date: Mon, 16 Aug 2004 10:05:49 +0100
From: "a.j.mosby" <a.j.mosby@btinternet.com>
Subject: Re: Time and again...
Thanks for the HL guest-list. Quite a few more than I initially remembered.
As for Stargate snooze-factor, it's interesting that for many years it
seemed to be the show that - for me - rarely produced a truly duff episode.
Not always stunning, but consistently watchable. It fluctuated a lot less
than some other series where there were truly terrible fillers on a regualr
basis. Now in its eighth year, I think SG-1 is doing better than expected,
even if some concepts aren't always as fresh as they were.
As for Atlantis, it's early days, but I think it's a show that has momentum.
Six or so episodes in and things are changing week to week, their particular
universe expanding as information is discovered and relationships between
the unit evolving - rather than being set up soley in the pilot and
remaining fairly static.
Yes, I'm slightly biased as Kerry's story was made as 'Suspicion', but
regardless, it's a fun show that I'll continue to watch.
John
----- Original Message -----
From: "MacWestie" <mac.westie@verizon.net>
To: <HIGHLA-L@LISTS.PSU.EDU>
Sent: Monday, August 16, 2004 2:17 AM
Subject: Re: [HL] Time and again...
> Mary--
> > You be surprised how man people are appearing
> > in Star-Gate.
>
> Well, if they ever make an episode that keeps me _awake_ , then I might be
> surprised, or something other than bored & mildly incredulous that it
> remains on the air. Lots of genre shows are bad, but SG-1 is the only one
> that consistently makes its 44 minutes of episodic air time seem about
twice
> more than needed to tell the story at hand. It's not that the stories are
> small or the actors unusually awful, so I think it must be the writing.
>
> Nina (& Atlantis is just as tedious--but Torri Higginson DID play Nick's
> sullen partner in HL: Raven's 1st ep)
> mac.westie@verizon.net
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 16 Aug 2004 10:14:30 -0400
From: Wendy Tillis <immortals_incorporated@cox.net>
Subject: Re: Q-Chips (was: The Immortal Cimoli)
Our Sensei wrote:
>And there is my newly-created Q-Chip Theory.
And a very fine theory it is (even if I snipped it all out <eg>). It allows both the idea that taking heads doesn't pass along any useful information or skill or a super burst of useable "power" but also allows for the possibility that taking enough heads (the exact number to be worked out in committee later) would, perhaps, give the Immortal a tiny "power" advantage. Danny Cimoli could have followed Amanda's suggestion and taken a "couple" of heads and he *still* would have been an easy mark for Case (or for Duncan in a fair fight).
>Let the cards fall where they may.
I have a Jack high straight flush ... what do you have?
>(Q-chips and spilled Coke?) (All I need are some tasty Q-Waves, a
>cool *buzz*, and I'm fine)
Ah...Q-waves. :::thinks back fondly on the "good old days":::::::::
Wendy(Did Duncan ever sell the dojo?)(Did the new owner wonder at the thick layer of dried coke on the floors?)(Did he wonder about the freeze-dried peas driven into the crevasses between the bricks?)
Immortals Inc.
immortals_incorporated@cox.net
"Weasels for Eternity"
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 16 Aug 2004 16:44:33 +0200
From: T'Mar <tmar@sifl.iid.co.za>
Subject: Re: Time and again...
>As for Stargate snooze-factor, it's interesting that for many years it
>seemed to be the show that - for me - rarely produced a truly duff episode.
>Not always stunning, but consistently watchable. It fluctuated a lot less
>than some other series where there were truly terrible fillers on a regualr
>basis. Now in its eighth year, I think SG-1 is doing better than expected,
>even if some concepts aren't always as fresh as they were.
I've never found an episode of Stargate to be boring. Some are not AS
exciting as others, but there's always a good character moment or two
that make it worthwhile. Like "Lockdown" - I mean, an alien jumping
from person to person - *snooze*. But Jack shooting Daniel, and the
bit with the Russian colonel (who I quite liked) made it worthwhile.
Even episodes in Season Sux (6 - not my words) are pretty decent. And
they *do* keep finding new ways to do things. I mean, you'd think
they'd explored all the character moments Teal'c could have. Then he
gets an apartment and a whole new set of ideas come into play. Not
to mention the episode where Jack had like ten things going on at once
and was considering leaving, then changed his mind. That couldn't
have been done in season 2 or 3. It had to be now.
Stargate is my favourite show.
>As for Atlantis, it's early days, but I think it's a show that has momentum.
I like it. At first I was like, "Hm." But it's starting to grow on me.
I like Dr McKay (was he ever in HL?). He's still a bit rude and
obnoxious, but now it's cute rather than annoying. I liked how TPTB
for Atlantis remembered that he's allergic to citrus. "Does this
have lemon on it?" I wonder why Jessica Steen wasn't chosen instead
of Torri Higginson? Did they just decide to go in another direction,
or did she not want to be in it? I really liked her in Earth 2.
At least we'll get to look for more HL actors, since Atlantis is also
filmed in Vancouver. Geez, that one forest is so recognizable I keep
expecting Duncan to run past!
- Marina. (Who made her Grade 6 kids watch Stargate, write it as a
story for English, then act it out.) (All the kids fought over who
got to be Teal'c!)
\\ "And we are scatterlings of Africa on a ||>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> //
// journey to the stars. Far below we leave || R I C H I E >> \\
\\ forever dreams of what we were." - Juluka ||>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> //
//============tmar@sifl.iid.co.za=============|| \\
\\============Chief Flag Waver and Defender of Richie============//
Teal'c: You have no recollection of the incident?
Daniel: No. Who shot me?! ["Lockdown"; Stargate SG-1]
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 16 Aug 2004 11:38:22 EDT
From: Ashton7@aol.com
Subject: Re: Time and again...
In a message dated 8/16/2004 5:06:56 AM Eastern Daylight Time,
a.j.mosby@btinternet.com writes:
> As for Stargate snooze-factor, it's interesting that for many years it
> seemed to be the show that - for me - rarely produced a truly duff episode.
> Not always stunning, but consistently watchable. It fluctuated a lot less
> than some other series where there were truly terrible fillers on a regualr
> basis. Now in its eighth year, I think SG-1 is doing better than expected,
> even if some concepts aren't always as fresh as they were.
So far, I think Stargate's 8th season has been consistently excellent. Of
course, we missed last week's episode because we were in the eye of a hurricane
instead. Lucky us! <g> But a lovely friend -- Highlandmg! -- recorded it for
us, so whenever we actually have power again, we'll be able to see even that
one. So far on the Our Stargate forum, it seems to have been well-liked, as well.
The power company is saying it could be as late as Saturday before we have
power again. So, over a week without power.
Atlantis -- eh. I love McKay. I like Sheppard. I absolutely loathe Weir. I
liked her when Jessica Steen played her. I've come to hate Torri Higginson's
version of her, alas. I don't care much for Teyla, but she's okay. So far the
episodes are sort of in the I can take them or leave them category. I often find
my attention wandering. Sort of like when I watch Enterprise. I don't hate it.
I don't love it. It's no Stargate SG-1.
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 16 Aug 2004 11:52:36 -0400
From: Wendy Tillis <immortals_incorporated@cox.net>
Subject: Re: Time and again...
::::::Hopes no one notices we've co-opted HIGHLA to discuss Stargate ::::::::
Marina says:
>I've never found an episode of Stargate to be boring. Some are not AS
>exciting as others, but there's always a good character moment or two
>that make it worthwhile.
I can't say I've never found an episode boring but, then again, how many shows that have been on for 7+ seasons never have a boring episode? HL certainly had some boring one (And there is our OBHLR!!!!) I do think that the quality has decreased as time went on ...but again that's pretty common after a few years on any show.
>Like "Lockdown" - I mean, an alien jumping
>from person to person - *snooze*. But Jack shooting Daniel, and the
>bit with the Russian colonel (who I quite liked) made it worthwhile.
I have to admit that so far Season Eight hasn't impressed me. It picked up all the elements from prior seasons that I disliked. Way too much time spent in the SGC and not enough on other planets. It's a big universe out there, why have they stopped exploring it? (Budget cuts, I assume). Too many episodes that focus on one character - two Teal'c-centric episodes in a row? Zero use of Daniel's specialized skills any more- everyone they meet now speaks English, has a culture that needs no explanation and has technology on-par with Earth. Further, I understand that RDA wants to reduce his time on-screen (actually, his time on-set) but he hasn't been used for much at all this season except as "comic relief". He shows up and makes some snarky comments that would have been funny in Season 1 but are now being over-done in Season 8. He's "phoning it in" and it shows.
>Even episodes in Season Sux (6 - not my words) are pretty decent. And
>they *do* keep finding new ways to do things. I mean, you'd think
>they'd explored all the character moments Teal'c could have. Then he
>gets an apartment and a whole new set of ideas come into play.
I don't care about Teal'c getting an apartment <g> .First, the idea that he would or could live out among the civilians is pretty silly. He doesn't look all that human (explain that gold seal on his forehead that they went to such great lengths to hide in public in the past). I assume he still has a great X-shaped pouch in his stomach even if the infant Goa'uld is gone? Explain that when he inevitably gets hit by a car and taken to the ER or thrown in jail and body-searched. And, after 8 years, he's still too "innocent" of Earth's ways (which doesn't make much sense and is only used when TPTB need a fish-out-of-water moment) Next we'll have to watch episodes with Sam and her current boyfriend <gag me>
>Not
>to mention the episode where Jack had like ten things going on at once
>and was considering leaving, then changed his mind. That couldn't
>have been done in season 2 or 3. It had to be now.
This is the guy who used to do black-ops for the military. The guy who has lead countless dangerous and complex Stargate missions. The guy who is really *very* smart but covers it up with an aw-shucks attitude. (Or used to- in later years they dumbed him down) Yeah, he doesn't like authority figures but he would know how to "command" and would be capable of doing 10 things at once and would know how to delegate to underlings. His informal, t-shirt wearing style would work as a team leader - but it wouldn't fly as the commanding officer. SGC worked because Hammond was a military man through and through- he kept order so that Jack could be a cowboy. Jack couldn't and wouldn't continue to act has he did when he was merely a team leader. It's unrealistic in the extreme.
>>As for Atlantis, it's early days, but I think it's a show that has
>momentum.
>
>I like it. At first I was like, "Hm." But it's starting to grow on me.
>I like Dr McKay (was he ever in HL?). He's still a bit rude and
>obnoxious, but now it's cute rather than annoying.
I keep waiting for McKay to do something to justify the fact that he is suppose to be a genius. His rude obnoxious behavior was OK (I suppose) when he was safe on Earth, in the field he could get himself and everyone else killed. In the latest episode, he took a planet's shield (leaving them defenseless) because, hey, he wanted the power source. Not a thought about the people he was leaving behind. The writers took the easy way out by having him return it just in time to save everyone- a more interesting and striking episode would have been to have him face the fact that his obnoxious superior attitude killed an entire civilization.
Ford is nice. Teyla would be OK if I didn't have the sneaking suspicion that TPTB want her to serve as a love-interest for Sheppard. Sheppard is nice - if a bit too much a Jack-clone. I miss the people from Teyla's village- I hope they haven't been shunted off to the planet's hinterland and forgotten. Dr. Weir - I don't like the actress and I don't really like the character but maybe she'll grow on me (or not) . I like the Scottish doctor the best and he doesn't get to do much. (And I hope they drop the idea of "inoculating" everyone with the alien gene so they can all use the equipment.) (And -shouldn't cultures in this new galaxy be more "different" from Earth than we've seen?)(I know, I know..bitch, bitch , bitch. <eg>)
Wendy(The Atlantis stargate looks so ...small.)(I know it's an optical illusion but it looks half the size of the Earth gate.)
Immortals Inc.
immortals_incorporated@cox.net
"Weasels for Eternity"
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 16 Aug 2004 12:16:50 -0400
From: kageorge <kageorge@erols.com>
Subject: Season Four dvd commentary: Double Jeopardy
This commentary, with screen captures, can be found at:
http://www.wordsmiths.net/MacGeorge/episodes/Season4/DoubleJeopardy.htm
Bill Panzer: It was never easy, after Tessa, to find someone the
audience would enjoy seeing Duncan with. So when they found Renee
Delaney, there was always kind of an attraction, more on her part, but
he was also interested because sometimes she was funny, kind of goofy,
kind of funny and sweet. She was an FBI agent, and FBI agents aren’t
like the people on “Law and Order, so when she runs into MacLeod, hunky,
handsome, nice funny, something-going-on-behind-the-eyes guy who has
apparently traveled the world, speaks many languages, is incredibly
sophisticated – it’s a lot for her to handle. In Paris she gradually
lets go of her inhibitions, and she’s ready to make a move on him, and
he slips away.
Charles Wilkinson directed the episode, and talked about directing in
Paris, which was a first for him, and a great gift to be able to do it.
It is much different working there from working in the U.S., where if he
says he wants to start a specific scene in a specific place after lunch,
he doesn’t need to say anymore. By mid-way through the morning, the
trucks are starting to move, and by the time they are through with
lunch, everything is set up.
In Paris, he says, you tell the AD what you want, and sometimes it
happens, and sometimes it doesn’t. He noticed that other directors who
got things done shouted a lot, and got the impression that’s what was
expected, except that Canadians are so “terminally polite” he would
never scream at anyone, even though sometimes it seemed like people were
just waiting for him to scream at them.
Any place you have the kinds of icons like the Eiffel Tower or Notre
Dame, you have to use them, even though the crew would smirk whenever he
asked to stage a scene with the Eiffel Tower in the background.
Gillian says Double Jeopardy was kind of the lost Highlander episode for
a while. Towards the end of filming of season four, they got the word
that the budget was cut for season five, so instead of the usual 22
episodes, they would only be able to film 18. After a great deal of
consultation, they decided to pull two episodes from season four and
save them for season five, so it would be two years of 20 episodes each.
One of them was One Minute to Midnight so they had a season-ending
cliffhanger, and the other episode was Double Jeopardy.
OUTTAKES: None.
EPISODE: The episode opens with the robbery of a jewelry store by a guy
dressed in leather and chains and his punk girlfriend, using poison gas
that kills everyone there, including the girlfriend.
Then we see Duncan being escorted into police headquarters as he is
carrying on a one-sided, deliberately ironic conversation with a silent,
grim policeman, something about being dragged out of bed at 5 o’clock in
the morning in the interests of “national security”. He is taken to the
office of an Inspector Dufay, where he also meets (sooprise, sooprise)
Renee Delaney, from the American CID, whom he had encountered back when
he had been hunting Xavier St. Cloud.
She seems uncomfortable, trying to be all business in front of the
French inspector, while Duncan is being annoyingly friendly. Turns out
they are investigating a series of robbery/murders fitting a pattern
used by Xavier St. Cloud, and Duncan’s name was mentioned in the
previous info they had on St. Cloud. Duncan says he can’t help, and
leaves, fairly irritated at the whole business.
Renee follows him out, apologizing that he got dragged into it, asking
him to help out, saying, “You know I wouldn’t screw you,” and getting a
questioning look from Duncan, which flusters her, but Duncan finally
tells her they are after the wrong guy, that it can’t be St. Cloud, that
he’s dead. She wants to know how he can be sure and he says, “I’ve got a
reliable source.” (We get a brief flashback showing Duncan taking St.
Cloud’s head.)
Then Renee tries to explain her cold behavior in the Inspector’s office
by saying she thought Duncan wouldn’t everyone want to know about “what
happened between us,” but Duncan replies that, as he remembered it, not
much had happened between them, and we get some brief flashbacks to
their semi-flirty/semi-antagonistic relationship during her pursuit of
St. Cloud. Renee says that whatever happened, it’s over because she’s
engaged to some Washington lawyer. He congratulates her, gives her a
little kiss, and leaves.
At the barge, Duncan feels Immortal presence and chases after a guy in a
dark coat and hat who runs inside a old building door, that, when Duncan
dives after him, turns out to open to an expanse that goes down a couple
of stories. Duncan falls, catching hold of a pipe to break his descent,
and recognizes Morgan d’Estang as the Immortal who is chasing him. There
is a hunt-and-chase scene and it is clear that Duncan would cheerfully
take d’Estang’s head, but d’Estang throws vials of gas to debilitate him
before taking his head. Duncan grabs some line and swings out, crashing
through a glass window that opens out under one of the bridges of the
Seine, telling astonished onlookers, “Remember, don’t try this at home.”
Duncan visits Renee in her temporary apartment, saying he’d changed his
mind about helping her, asking to see her files on St. Cloud. Renee
reminds him that if they work together, it’s strictly professional – but
it seems obvious that the one who is worried about it not being strictly
professional is Renee, not Duncan. Duncan gives her Morgan d’Estang’s
name, and we get a flashback to Morgan’s pre-Immortal years, when the
aristocratic French family that had adopted him, then had a son of their
own, had decided to leave the estate and title to their “real” son, Bernard.
Morgan is hurt and furious and that night tries to kill Bernard, but is
interrupted by the father, who ends up fatally stabbing Morgan in the
back. It just so happens that Xavier St. Cloud rides by while Morgan is
lying in his coffin in the chapel, and stops, opening the casket as
Morgan gasps for air.
Duncan takes Renee on a dinner boat trip up the Seine. Inspector Dufay
shows up, which annoys Duncan, but Morgan shows up, at well, acting all
friendly and buddy-buddy. Duncan refuses to introduce them, and drags
Morgan outside, asking what he’s going to do next. Morgan says Xavier
taught him everything he knows, and we get another flashback, to where
Xavier helps Morgan poison the entire d’Estang family and steal their
gold and jewels as they are fleeing the approaching British army, which
we can hear fighting in the distance.
It so happens that MacLeod is leading a party of men to secure the
estate for the use of the army’s general staff, and runs into Xavier and
Morgan. Unfortunately, there are too many around for them to fight, so
he has to let them go.
In the present, Duncan tells Morgan he’s just a cheap imitation of
Xavier, but Morgan says he’s not an imitation he’s an homage. Inside, a
waiter pours a special wine for Inspector Dufay and Renee from the
Chateau d’Estang [are they just stupid? They were just talking about
Morgan d’Estang, and suddenly someone produces a bottle of wine from the
estate for them to drink? Duh!]
Duncan spots them drinking, knocks the glass from Renee’s hand, but it’s
too late for Dufay, who collapses and dies. When Renee finds out the guy
at the restaurant had been Morgan, she’s furious. [Well, duh, again.]
They find out the bottle shouldn’t have even existed, and Duncan
declares he’ll let Renee know if he has any ideas about how to find
d’Estang. Then Duncan goes to the Chateau d’Estang and finds Morgan
there, asking why he killed the inspector. “Because I could!” Morgan
answers, saying Xavier was a prince who treated Morgan like a prince,
and he seems determined to take revenge on Duncan.
Again they fight, and Duncan looks like he’s enjoying it. Morgan is
about to toss one of his poison gas thingys when Renee shows up with the
police and arrests Morgan. Morgan makes some trashy remarks, Renee
reacts, then Morgan talks about how young and fiery she is, but how
temporary. Duncan, sensing the threat to Renee, insists she’s nothing to
him, and Morgan says, “Oh, spare me. The minute you two are alone she’ll
be over you like a bitch in heat!” And Renee dives after Morgan, ready
to pummel him until she’s dragged off.
Duncan is pissed off because Renee followed him, and she’s pissed off
because he didn’t confide in her that he had a lead on where d’Estang
was. Duncan warns her about Morgan being dangerous, but she shrugs it
off since the man is now in custody. But not for long, of course, since
d’Estang has hung himself in his cell.
That night, Duncan is walking Renee home as she is bemoaning that not
only had Morgan died, but his body had been stolen from the morgue.
Duncan suggests that maybe Morgan had just gotten up and walked away,
which makes Renee laugh. She says they shouldn’t see each other any
more, but Duncan feels another Immortal around, and insists on going up
with Renee to her apartment, “Just to talk. Honest. Scout’s honor.”
Reluctantly, she agrees, but is obviously very nervous and
uncomfortable. She brings them coffee, some soft music is playing and
everything they are saying seems like a double-entendre. Renee spills
coffee on herself and goes to change her blouse, obviously nuts about
Duncan and as she is dressing, she breathlessly calls out to Duncan
asking if, when they kiss, did he feel something, “Like your spine
melting or something?”
But then Duncan feels another Immortal.
She babbles on as she is changing clothes, saying that she had a “thing”
for him, that it must be chemical or something, and that if they don’t
go to bed together she’ll spend the rest of her life wondering what she
missed, that it wouldn’t be fair to her fiancé. She emerges from the
bedroom dressed in a long, sexy black nightgown, but Duncan is gone
(Awwww!).
He has gone up to the roof, where he meets Morgan. It’s snowing rather
heavily and is slippery, but Duncan is still quite confident that Morgan
is not really a match for him. At one point Duncan manages to trap
Morgan’s sword and send it flying up to a higher rooftop level. Morgan
goes after it, delaying Duncan by throwing a knife and catching him in
the shoulder. “That’s not going to do very much good, boy,” Duncan tells
him derisively, but Morgan informs him there was poison on the tip, and
he’s only got 30 seconds.
Duncan starts to fade quickly as he climbs the ladder after Morgan.
“That’s 15 more than I need,” he gasps. By the time he gets to the top,
he’s barely staying on his feet, but in two cuts, he manages to gut,
then behead Morgan. As he finally dies, he stumbles backward, falling to
a bench below. The quickening envelops him while he is still dead,
tossing his body around like a rag doll
[And firmly establishing new canon – that so long as an Immortal isn’t
beheaded, he can still receiving a Quickening.] He only revives after
the Q is over, looking like he’s in agony.
The tag scene has Renee saying goodbye to Duncan outside the barge.
She’s off to Washington to get married. When Duncan tries to apologize
for the night before, she tells him that if he’d stayed, “it might have
been a big mistake,” and that he was a gentleman for not taking
advantage of the situation.
Duncan looks a little mystified, but smiles and nods, “Well, what can I
say.”
After a few moments of awkward conversation, she starts to leave, and
asks for a kiss goodbye. He gently kisses her cheek and she turns away,
then turns back, dropping her umbrella. “Oh, hell!” she says, grabbing
him around the neck and kissing him hard, but the momentum sends them
both splashing into the Seine.
MY COMMENTS: This was a strange little episode that had a villain who
was hardly worthy of the effort, and the most singularly Mary Sue-ish
character in the whole series. Renee is beautiful, brave, funny and
smart, but unlike the more aggressive kick-ass female characters that
have become more prevalent today, she is quite overawed by the hero.
I truly didn’t like Morgan d’Estang, who was a little weasel with no
redeeming characteristics, and didn’t even manage to be particularly
scary or threatening.
The flashback scenes looked okay, but the voice-overs were looped poorly
and frequently didn’t look/sound right. The action scenes were pretty
decent, with Duncan’s fall into the warehouse nicely done. The final
fight was actually pretty good and the idea of having Duncan taking a Q
while dead was a least a new twist on an old theme.
There were enormous plot holes, like Renee only being mildly annoyed
that Duncan didn’t bother to tell her that their primary suspect had
come to visit them at their table for dinner and served them poisoned
wine. The problem with this episode was not really with the acting –
since both d’Estang and Renee were played well, I think. The problem was
with the whole concept, which didn’t engage me at all.
Duncan looked good, though. Nice leather vest. Nice double-breasted coat.
MacGeorge
All episode commentaries at:
http://www.wordsmiths.net/MacGeorge/episodes/indexframeset.htm
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 16 Aug 2004 13:00:15 EDT
From: Highlandmg@aol.com
Subject: Re: Time and again...
Hi
my list is still incomplete I am still finding people and I have not double
checked some of the names. Here are some the were not listed in previous post.
(Please excuse if I did not se it on list. As I am still working on the list
so there maybe errors. If you have more oe se a error I will check
I have mine as episodes not numbered
Beverley Elliott
Unholy Alliance -Supervisor
The Blitz-Karen
Fulvio Cecere
See No Evil- Lt Tony Graffini
The Valkrie-Alan Wilkinson
Terry Barclay
Uhholy Alliance 1&2-Rick Davis
Paco- Little Tin God
Veronique Baylauca
Anne-Immortal Cimoli
Two Of Hearts-Secretary
Bernie or Berntie Cortez
Lady and The Tiget-Ringmaster
Rev 6.8-Dr Cerbavoda
Bill Croft
Bad Day In Building A- Mancuso
Blackmail-Peter Matlin
Ewan (Sudsy) Clark
Return Of Amanda-Heinrich Faas
Homeland-George La Londe
Mark Acheson
Run For your Life-Billy Ray
Courage-Laszlo
Peter Bryant
The Sea Witch-Nina
Reluctant Heroes-cop
Phillippe Agael
For tom We Die-Medical Examiner
Unholy alliance 1-Anton
Roger Bret
I also have him as Fr Berard in Counterfiet 2
Terry Arrowsmith
An Eye For An Eye- Rawls
The Samurai-Haley
Andrew Kavada's
Eye for and eye-Mick
Anthony Dourcef`- The Revolutionary
Tom Heaton
The Zone-old man
Prophcy-Old Man
Charles Maquignon
Methos-Bartendwe
Final1-Gerard
Philip Hayes
The sea witch-Marco
The innocent-Alan Wells
Federic Witt
Warmonger-Nikov
Star-Crossed-Patrick
Jean Francois Pages
Unholy Alliance 2-Luc Bergon
Methos and take back the night-Basil Dornin
Rick Poltaruk
also Clerk in Line of Fire
Mountain Men-Big John
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 16 Aug 2004 22:25:47 +0200
From: T'Mar <tmar@sifl.iid.co.za>
Subject: Re: Time and again...
>>I often find my attention wandering. Sort of like when I watch
>>Enterprise. I don't hate it. I don't love it. It's no Stargate SG-1.
Yes, but nothing could be. :)
Wendy wrote:
>::::::Hopes no one notices we've co-opted HIGHLA to discuss Stargate
::::::::
They should be grateful the list has some traffic. And isn't it technically
on-topic since MS was in HL? (Even if he picked the worst episode to be in.)
>Too many episodes that focus on one character - two Teal'c-centric episodes
>in a row?
I don't mind that IF they use the other characters well in an episode.
I have still to see either Teal'c episode, though, so I don't know whether
those did or not.
>Zero use of Daniel's specialized skills any more- everyone they meet now
>speaks English, has a culture that needs no explanation and has technology
>on-par with Earth.
Yeah, that's annoying but as long as I get to see Daniel I don't care
what he's doing. Sad, I know. A lot of people hated Season Sux because
of the severe lack of Daniel, but I quite liked it. They had some good
stuff there with Jonas and Teal'c that they couldn't have done otherwise.
You go on to say: (stuff quoted out of order)
>after 8 years, he's still too "innocent" of Earth's ways (which doesn't
>make much sense and is only used when TPTB need a fish-out-of-water moment)
No, it doesn't. In Season Sux he was the one who had to stop Jonas from
saying or doing "anything weird", which goes to show that they thought
of him as pretty much knowing how to behave in Earth culture.
>I don't care about Teal'c getting an apartment <g> .
Well, I do. :) It's more of a fan thing, I think. I'm sure the idea has
been done in fanfic. (No, I'm really not trying to poke Nina.) It's
quite fun when a show does something that the fans thought of months or
years before.
The thing is, a show has to live or die by the characters. And you need
character-centric episodes. The concept is key, but you need characters
that work within it. As HL: The Raven and various Trek spinoffs have
shown, you cannot just plug random people into a concept and expect it
to work. The audience has to care about those particular characters. If
they don't, the show won't work.
>I assume he still has a great X-shaped pouch in his stomach even if the
>infant Goa'uld is gone? Explain that when he inevitably gets hit by a car
>and taken to the ER or thrown in jail and body-searched.
Point. (I miss Junior.) But I don't think they can force him to remain
on the base 24/7 either. And it costs too much to keep turning the Gate
on, so he couldn't go to another planet at night...
>Next we'll have to watch episodes with Sam and her current boyfriend <gag me>
That would suit me fine. I love all the DeLuise brothers.
>SGC worked because Hammond was a military man through and through- he
>kept order so that Jack could be a cowboy. Jack couldn't and wouldn't
>continue to act has he did when he was merely a team leader. It's
>unrealistic in the extreme.
But from what I've seen Jack has realised he has to be more like General
Hammond now. Give the man a chance. I think eventually he will find his
feet and his own style. From episodes in the various seasons, we know
he does know how to think extremely tactically, and he knows why there's
a chain of command. He must just get used to being the guy giving most
of the orders now.
>I keep waiting for McKay to do something to justify the fact that he is
>suppose to be a genius. His rude obnoxious behavior was OK (I suppose)
>when he was safe on Earth, in the field he could get himself and everyone
>else killed.
I do hope that this will be addressed and he will realise that behaviour
he could get away with on Earth won't work in the Pegasus galaxy. I did
like in the pilot, "Draining power. Draining power! Draining power!" Made
me want to hug him. I'm SOOOO sad. ;-P
>In the latest episode, he took a planet's shield (leaving them defenseless)
>because, hey, he wanted the power source. Not a thought about the people
>he was leaving behind. The writers took the easy way out by having him
>return it just in time to save everyone- a more interesting and striking
>episode would have been to have him face the fact that his obnoxious
>superior attitude killed an entire civilization.
Totally. I wish they would take risks like that. Great SF needs those
kinds of stories to BE great SF. Otherwise a show is just 42 minutes of
entertainment.
>Sheppard is nice - if a bit too much a Jack-clone.
They even pointed that out (unsubtly) in the pilot. Jack: "He doesn't follow
orders!" Weir: "Colonel, I've read your file. Please!" Heh.
>I like the Scottish doctor the best and he doesn't get to do much.
Oh, isn't he great? Maybe we all just have a *thing* for the Scots. :)
>(And -shouldn't cultures in this new galaxy be more "different" from
>Earth than we've seen?)
Especially since the humans in this galaxy aren't technically humans,
right? They're descendants of the Ancients. The Ancients evolved, left,
some returned, they lived and died, some figured out how to ascend,
others died of the plague sweeping across the galaxy. Humans came a
couple million years later. The Ancients driven out by the Wraith came
back sometime in our human history but they haven't said whether or
not the two lots of "human forms" can even interbreed. What? I think
about these things!
>(I know, I know..bitch, bitch , bitch. <eg>)
As people have pointed out before on this list, we as fans can think up
criticisms faster than the writers can write! But a new show (even an
old one, what am I saying) needs to take risks. This is why Star Trek
Voyager and Enterprise are so darn boring. Because they're going where
all the other shows have gone before. Do something new, for crying out
loud!
>(The Atlantis stargate looks so ...small.)(I know it's an optical illusion
>but it looks half the size of the Earth gate.)
To quote Jack O'Neill, "Ours is bigger." :)
- Marina.
\\ "And we are scatterlings of Africa on a ||>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> //
// journey to the stars. Far below we leave || R I C H I E >> \\
\\ forever dreams of what we were." - Juluka ||>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> //
//============tmar@sifl.iid.co.za=============|| \\
\\============Chief Flag Waver and Defender of Richie============//
Teal'c: You have no recollection of the incident?
Daniel: No. Who shot me?! ["Lockdown"; Stargate SG-1]
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 16 Aug 2004 18:07:41 -0400
From: Sandy Fields <diamonique@comcast.net>
Subject: Re: Time and again...
At 10:44 AM 8/16/2004, T'Mar wrote:
>I've never found an episode of Stargate to be boring. Some are not AS
>exciting as others, but there's always a good character moment or two
>that make it worthwhile.
I'm with you Marina. I'm still a bit SG1 fan. And Atlantis isn't nearly
as bad as I thought it might be. I enjoy my two hours of Stargate every
Friday. :-)
-- Sandy (can't get used to Teal'c with hair though)
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 16 Aug 2004 12:52:42 -1000
From: MacWestie <mac.westie@verizon.net>
Subject: Re: Time and again...
Wendy--
> >I don't care about Teal'c getting an apartment <g> .
Marina--
> Well, I do. :) It's more of a fan thing, I think. I'm sure the idea has
> been done in fanfic. (No, I'm really not trying to poke Nina.) It's
> quite fun when a show does something that the fans thought of months or
> years before.
It's actually pathetic. Shows just how much the writing team is scraping
the bottom of the barrel.
SG-1 is something I regularly force myself to try watching--when some
doltish mag article says it has improved, or when a new season starts, or
when there's simply nothing else on. And that's usually the case for its
1st run eps, a major secret of the show's success, I think--&, it's cheap to
make. It's like a doctor's appointment--I go in thinking it'll be good for
me but usually end up flinching.
Wendy--
>Teyla would be OK if I didn't have the sneaking suspicion that TPTB want
her to serve as a love-interest for Sheppard.
I can't get around her hair. Surely that orange mop is going to turn out to
be some parasitic alien species....
Nina (Not that HL:TS didn't have some bad faux hair, of course.)
mac.westie@verizon.net
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 16 Aug 2004 19:07:04 -0400
From: Sandy Fields <diamonique@comcast.net>
Subject: Re: Time and again...
At 06:52 PM 8/16/2004, MacWestie wrote:
>I can't get around her hair. Surely that orange mop is going to turn out to
>be some parasitic alien species....
Ditto! That wig must have come from the HL makeup trailer.
-- Sandy
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 16 Aug 2004 21:04:34 -0400
From: Wendy Tillis <immortals_incorporated@cox.net>
Subject: Re: Season Four dvd commentary: Double Jeopardy
MacGeorge says:
>MY COMMENTS: This was a strange little episode that had a villain who
>was hardly worthy of the effort, and the most singularly Mary Sue-ish
>character in the whole series. Renee is beautiful, brave, funny and
>smart, but unlike the more aggressive kick-ass female characters that
>have become more prevalent today, she is quite overawed by the hero.
Clue me in..how is Renee the most singularly Mary Sue-ish character in the whole series? Is it because she is beautiful, brave, funny and smart? Does that make Methos a Mary Sue too? He is certainly beautiful, funny, smart and even brave (occasionally).
Wendy(I got tired of these attempts to retro-fit Xavier into Duncan's past)
Immortals Inc.
immortals_incorporated@cox.net
"Weasels for Eternity"
------------------------------
End of HIGHLA-L Digest - 15 Aug 2004 to 16 Aug 2004 - Special issue (#2004-150)
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