HIGHLA-L Digest - 25 Mar 2004 to 26 Mar 2004 (#2004-57)
Automatic digest processor (LISTSERV@lists.psu.edu)
Fri, 26 Mar 2004 22:00:05 -0500
There are 10 messages totalling 480 lines in this issue.
Topics of the day:
1. Immortals Among Us...For Real?? (4)
2. TV alert for South African members (2)
3. Seasons Three dvds: Obsession (4)
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Date: Thu, 25 Mar 2004 21:16:01 -0600
From: abynum <abynum@uark.edu>
Subject: Re: Immortals Among Us...For Real??
I ran a few searches and came up close to E. (empty)
There is a Dr. Henrik Pederson at Rutgers. He's in the ChemE Dept though. I
couldn't verify the article by Micheal Forsyth. Where did you see it Ellen?
Peace,
Miss Anne
FKA objuan.
Miss Anne O'Hara Bynum
104 Boles St.
Fayetteville, AR 72701
479-443-4393
Waving A Weasel Banner |===~===|
"Isn't life a series of images that change as they repeat
themselves?" - Andy Warhol, American artist (1927-1987)
"There is hardly anything in the world that some men cannot make a
little bit worse and sell a little cheaper, and the people who
consider price only are this man's lawful prey." - John Ruskin
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 25 Mar 2004 23:40:54 EST
From: EllnT@aol.com
Subject: Re: Immortals Among Us...For Real??
In a message dated 3/25/2004 10:18:08 PM Eastern Standard Time,
abynum@uark.edu writes:
There is a Dr. Henrik Pederson at Rutgers. He's in the ChemE Dept though. I
couldn't verify the article by Micheal Forsyth. Where did you see it Ellen?
We-e-e-l-l-l-l, <grin> would you believe WEEKLY WORLD NEWS...??
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 25 Mar 2004 23:02:30 -0600
From: abynum <abynum@uark.edu>
Subject: Re: Immortals Among Us...For Real??
>===== Original Message From Highlander movies and TV series
<HIGHLA-L@LISTS.PSU.EDU> =====
>In a message dated 3/25/2004 10:18:08 PM Eastern Standard Time,
>abynum@uark.edu writes:
>There is a Dr. Henrik Pederson at Rutgers. He's in the ChemE Dept though. I
>couldn't verify the article by Micheal Forsyth. Where did you see it Ellen?
>We-e-e-l-l-l-l, <grin> would you believe WEEKLY WORLD NEWS...??
LOL!! That's one of those Enquirer-type rags, right? Hehehehehe =) I have
seen valid research done in cellular maintenance/reparation. Look for Dr.
Brian Ames... the article was something like Old-timer "Rats doing the
Macerana" =)
Peace,
Anne O.
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 25 Mar 2004 22:26:16 -0800
From: Jen <data@cyberg8t.com>
Subject: Re: Immortals Among Us...For Real??
Yeah, and they take themselves seriously, seriously. I prefer the Onion. ;)
Jen the Fangirl
----- Original Message -----
From: "abynum" <abynum@uark.edu>
To: <HIGHLA-L@LISTS.PSU.EDU>
Sent: Thursday, March 25, 2004 9:02 PM
Subject: Re: [HL] Immortals Among Us...For Real??
> >===== Original Message From Highlander movies and TV series
> <HIGHLA-L@LISTS.PSU.EDU> =====
> >In a message dated 3/25/2004 10:18:08 PM Eastern Standard Time,
> >abynum@uark.edu writes:
> >There is a Dr. Henrik Pederson at Rutgers. He's in the ChemE Dept
though. I
> >couldn't verify the article by Micheal Forsyth. Where did you see it
Ellen?
> >We-e-e-l-l-l-l, <grin> would you believe WEEKLY WORLD NEWS...??
>
> LOL!! That's one of those Enquirer-type rags, right? Hehehehehe =) I
have
> seen valid research done in cellular maintenance/reparation. Look for Dr.
> Brian Ames... the article was something like Old-timer "Rats doing the
> Macerana" =)
>
> Peace,
>
> Anne O.
>
>
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 26 Mar 2004 09:54:29 -0600
From: "Spear, Kathy--SJA" <Kathy.Spear@hood.army.mil>
Subject: Re: TV alert for South African members
what is SABC as far as Tracker goes? not sure what channel that is
-----Original Message-----
From: Tarryn Zank [mailto:Zankt@nu.ac.za]
Sent: Thursday, March 25, 2004 3:41 AM
To: HIGHLA-L@LISTS.PSU.EDU
Subject: TV alert for South African members
This is just a TV alert to South African members of this list:
1) The Outer Limits season 6 is being shown on SABC 3 after the movie on
Friday nights, so say around 11pm. This week is the episode entitled
"Manifest Destiny" and stars Michael SHanks (ep: The Zone). In 2 weeks time,
ie 9 April, we should get "The Beholder" with Peter Wingfield. Being another
Vancouver series, there are probably many more 'lesser' HL alumni (ie guest
stars) in these episodes, so always good to watch.
2) "Tracker" starts on SABC 1 on Saturdays from the 3 April, at 9pm.
I knew as soon as it was cancelled that we would be getting it on this
channel, as it always has the one-hit not-so-wonders, Andromeda and NYPD
Blue being the 2 exceptions, but then, we only saw 1/2 of season 1 of
ANdromeda, and we've only just seen the season of NYPD Blue where Rick
Schroeder joins the team.
Thanks!
TarrynZ
--------------------------------------------------------------------
Please find our disclaimer at http://www.disclaimer.nu.ac.za
--------------------------------------------------------------------
<<<<gwavasig>>>>
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 26 Mar 2004 22:52:53 +0200
From: T'Mar <tmar@sifl.iid.co.za>
Subject: Re: TV alert for South African members
>what is SABC as far as Tracker goes? not sure what channel that is
South African Broadcasting Corporation, Channel 1... as per the
subject line.
- Marina.
\\ "And we are scatterlings of Africa on a ||>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> //
// journey to the stars. Far below we leave || R I C H I E >> \\
\\ forever dreams of what we were." - Juluka ||>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> //
//=============tmar@sifl.iid.co.za============|| \\
\\============Chief Flag Waver and Defender of Richie============//
Discussing Voyager:
Me: What happened to Seven?
My brother: She stumbled into a plot device.
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 26 Mar 2004 17:49:30 -0500
From: kageorge <kageorge@erols.com>
Subject: Seasons Three dvds: Obsession
I get the feeling no one is reading these since they aren't sparking any
discussion, but at least once I get this one done, I'll be caught up, and
from here on out the postings here will coincide with those on other lists.
The next in the series is: Obsession.
COMMENTARY: Bill Panzer says that in order to get the story about
obsession"emotionally right", everyone involved needed to have an experience
with obsession, to understand the demon that you have in you that you can't
control. Gillian H. says the episode explored obsession from an
uncomfortable point of view - that of the stalker. It was a somewhat
frightening look into the psyche of the character and why he became obsessed
with this woman. (Their comments are interspersed with short clips
demonstrating David Keogh's obsessive behavior.) From the stalker's point of
view, his behavior made sense. Donna Lettow comments that she thought the
show was not unrealistic since, "Those men are out there and how much
scarier is it that he's going to be out there forever?"
Gillian notes that the character of David was modeled on a real craftsman
(Sam Maloof) whose rocking chairs are so prized that the waiting list for
them is longer than the woodworker's life is likely to be. Gillian had read
an article about him and loved the notion of a craftsman who would have had
centuries to hone his skills. She notes that the prop chair they used did
not approach the beauty of a real Sam Maloof rocking chair (see:
http://www.furnituresociety.org/news/awards/1maloof.html)
Gillian isn't sure the flashback to Duncan's own history of obsession of
Sarah really comes off as a complete parallel to David Keogh's behavior.
Donna notes that there are two minutes of square dancing, and there was a
"lot of extra fluff in there" with the implication that perhaps if more of
the dramatic scenes had been shown, the intensity of the relationship might
have been better seen. [SIDEBAR: Isn't this at least as much a function of
the writing? Why didn't they provide more inter-character dialogue? Was it
there, but got edited out and we never saw it? If so why didn't they show us
those moments in the outtake clips?]
Gillian notes that Duncan's character had, perhaps, been too well
established at that point, and that it was difficult to make it believable
that he was "that far off his rocker" in the flashback. Donna adds that part
of the problem of the lack of emotional intensity of the episode was that
the entire emotional relationship was between two guest stars. The regular
characters were there to intervene, they weren't really emotionally involved
in the story.
Gillian comments that the writers always think they have written the perfect
show, but when the dailies come back and it wasn't what they had envisioned,
they always look to whether there was something "off" in the guest star
casting, did the director not get what they were trying to do, or "maybe it
wasn't as good a script as we thought."
OUTTAKES: Gillian tells us that David is supposed to look out Duncan's
window and see Jill approaching, which seems simple until you remember that
Duncan's window is built on a soundstage, and there is nothing beyond it but
another set. (Recall that in "Rite of Passage" there was a similar issue
discussed in the commentary.) So once again, a scaffolding was built, and a
window put on top of it. It was dragged out into the street, a camera and an
actor were put on top. Of course, after all that, they didn't use the shot
in the episode (but they show it, and it's all of about 5 seconds long.)
[This was the best outtake they came up with? They had several excellent
scenes that probably had outtakes, including the fight scene in the bar in
the flashback, the sex scene, the kata. Sheesh.]
EPISODE: The opening scene is of a pleasant looking young man approaching a
house carrying flowers, he knocks, a woman answers. He tells her he and
"Jill" had a little misunderstanding, and wants to see her. She tells him
that Jill isn't there, and informs him that Jill doesn't want to see him. He
spots Jill leaving the house, and pursues her saying he just wants to talk
to her. The woman, clearly terrified, runs him over with her car.
Duncan, is seen coming out of the bathroom, bare-chested, with Anne Lindsay
stretched out on the couch in what is probably Duncan's bathrobe drinking
coffee and reading the morning paper, answers the phone. It is his old
friend, David Keogh (the young man from the first scene). He agrees to meet
David in a church, then gives Anne his spare elevator key and leaves.
Richie comes into the dojo, turning on the lights and opening the blinds,
and Anne emerges from the elevator. Jill arrives, looking frightened and
nervous, asking for Duncan MacLeod. Anne, sensing the woman is troubled,
asks if she would like to stay and wait, but the women declines and leaves.
This is all the setup to a plot about a fairly young Immortal who had been
rejected by the first woman he loved some 175 years before when he had been
a fairly newly emancipated indentured servant, a reasonably successful
builder of homes. He is rejected and publically humiliated as a mere
tradesman, not suitable for his socially prominent love.
In the present day, David is a master woodcarver, building speciality
rocking chairs. Jill is an interior designer who pursued David. David, a
loner who had been initially abused by his first Immortal teacher, was
initially reluctant, but ultimately he fell in love. However, when David
told Jill about his Immortality, she freaked out, couldn't deal with it and
severed the relationship. Ever since, David has been trying to calm Jill
down, to help her understand, refusing to believe that she has rejected him
totally. He is convinced that if he just has the opportunity to talk to her,
reason with her, she will come around.
When Jill shows up at Duncan's place again while Duncan is off to have lunch
with Anne, Richie witnesses her fear and David's intractable pursuit of her,
even to the point of drawing his sword on Richie when Richie puts himself
between David and a clearly reluctant, frightened Jill.
At Joe's we see Anne grilling an obviously uncomfortable Duncan about how
long he had known David and the details of David's wedding. She asks him the
infamous, "Have you ever been married before?" question, to which he
answers, "Nope." But says he came close a couple of times. When she presses
for more information, he decides it's time to leave.
Back at the loft, Richie tells Mac about Keogh losing it when he saw Jill,
which prompts a (double) flashback to a time in the old west, a few years
after the slaughter of Little Deer and Kahani, when Duncan met a woman
(Sarah) fell in love, offered to marry her and almost tells her about
Immortality (but she deflects the conversation, urging them to live only in
the moment). Later, a farmer shows up, saying he's Sarah's husband, and
Duncan goes berserk, practically beating the guy to death. Sarah stops
Duncan, and confesses that she is married to the man, who is a good man and
treated her well, but she just didn't want to be a farmer's wife. She leaves
with her husband, but Duncan can't leave it alone and shows up at her farm,
trying to convince her to run off with him. She refuses, but Duncan won't
back off and the farmer ends up shooting Duncan in the chest with a shotgun.
Duncan dies, and when he revives, Sarah is terrified and begs him to go away
and leave her in peace.
We see an intense kata done by Duncan, as his own voice-over instructs him
to "work through the anger, work through the pain." He tells himself he
thought she was gone, but it had all come back. "Why is it I can still taste
you? David knows. The thoughts, the pain, the obsession."
Jill has sought out Duncan because she knows David trusts and respects him.
She wants Duncan to convince David to leave her alone. David arrives, and
when Duncan tries to convince David to leave Jill alone, Richie gets all
protective of Jill, triggering David's fury, and the three are in a pretty
violent tableau just as Anne Lindsay arrives. Over Duncan's objections about
her getting involved in the whole mess, Anne takes Jill back to her place.
At Anne's apartment the next morning, Anne encourages Jill to talk, but Jill
says, "Not knowing is better, and that "David and Duncan aren't like other
guys." Before Anne has an opportunity to grill Jill about what she means,
Duncan shows up, wanting Jill to get out of there because David will be able
to find out where Anne lives. As Anne is insisting on calling the police,
Jill is shooting meaningful looks at Duncan, saying there was only one thing
that could stop David, and that, "you have to." Duncan is obviously upset at
the notion of killing his friend, and insists he will keep David away from
Jill, that he will convince him to leave her alone. Again, Anne goes to the
phone to call the police, but Duncan takes the phone from her. As they
argue, Jill leaves. Duncan literally throws up his hands in frustration, and
follows.
We see her go back to her apartment, but David is there. Jill runs from him,
ending up out on the balcony to get away, saying she doesn't want to talk,
she just wants it to be over. When David starts to yell at her in
frustration, she even climbs over the rail.
Duncan arrives as David is trying to convince her to climb back over the
rail. Jill is hysterical and weeping, clinging to the side of the building.
Duncan gets David to back off to the door of the balcony, and reaches to
help Jill climb to safety, but as she reaches out, David lunges to help her.
She screams and jerks away, and falls to her death.
David is devastated, asking why, that all he ever wanted was to have what
other people have. As Duncan is trying to get them both away from the scene,
David turns on him, accusing him of taking away his chance at happiness.
David draws his sword, and a fairly short fight ensues, with Duncan
initially responding only defensively, trying to convince David he's wrong.
Finally, Duncan goes on the offensive and in fairly short order knocks David
's sword away. But David is still angry, still obsessed, urging him to
finish it, "because if you don't, I'm coming for you." Duncan throws David's
sword out of easy reach, then says darkly, with his sword at David's throat,
"Then you come for me," and leaves.
The final tag scene is with Anne back at the loft. Duncan is brooding at the
window, chastising himself for not getting there sooner, for not having
found the right thing to say to stop David and save Jill. "He wasn't always
like that," he tells Anne. "He just needed so much."
MY COMMENTS: When I look at Highlander episodes, my focus is on the main
characters and the over-arching themes. So in this particular episode,
whatever we see David and Jill and Anne do, from my perspective, the
interest is in what it reveals about Duncan and Richie.
One of the reasons I sometimes find Richie a less-than-appealing character
is exemplified in this episode. Each time he ends up in a confrontation with
David, Richie's response is instant macho aggression. Sometimes that
aggression is appropriate, but not always. In the scene in the loft with
Jill, Richie, David and Duncan, Duncan was being soothing, calming, talking
in a low, gentle voice, keeping his arms loose at his sides, his body
language and tone all designed to encourage rational discussion.
Yes, it was tense, which was why Richie should have just let Duncan handle
it, rather than instantly going all macho and into fighting mode, stepping
up to "protect" Jill the minute David got a little excited. His aggression
triggered David's rage, which escalated the situation out of control. I don'
t know that it would have made a difference in the long run, but a real
opportunity to get David to face his own irrational behavior was lost.
But that is really a side issue, and others may certainly disagree (and
probably will <g>). The most important issue of the episode was what we
learn about Duncan, that he is capable of overwhelming, obsessive passion,
especially as a response to at last finding someone to love after the
painful death of Little Deer and his Sioux family, and his subsequent
self-imposed isolation (emotional and physical). I think the last line he
says is far more about himself, than about David: "He just needed so much."
We know that Duncan is a man of great passion, who has a virtually
irrepressible urge to love deeply. For decades before he met Sarah, we know
he had spent time alone on the island, and it is clear that his sojourn as a
newspaper man in a small western town had, up to the time he met Sarah, at
least, been an emotional void. While I didn't think the chemistry with Sarah
was all that apparent, the headboard-grabbing love scene is, in my opinion,
as explicit and as sexy as any in the series, so at least some measure of
the heat of their passion got caught on screen. And the deflated,
downtrodden look we see as he finally rides away from Sarah shows us the
enormous emotional toll the experience took on him.
And the kata? Whew. One of the most intense work-out scenes in the series.
So the episode itself may not have been top-notch, since I (frankly) didn't
care a great deal about David or Jill, but we did learn some interesting
aspects of Duncan's character.
And Anne? (sigh) Once again she comes across as a well intended but bumbling
busybody, but I'm sure it was probably as frustrating for the actress (and
the character), as it is for the viewer.
MacGeorge
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 26 Mar 2004 18:00:21 EST
From: Evelyn Duncan <BrandyKitt@aol.com>
Subject: Re: Seasons Three dvds: Obsession
In a message dated 3/26/2004 4:50:15 PM Central Standard Time,
kageorge@erols.com writes:
<<
I get the feeling no one is reading these since they aren't sparking any
discussion,
>>
I, for one, am reading them, and I thank you for the information you're
providing on each episode. I'm especially waiting for the one on
Methos, since he is my favorite of all of the Highlander people (Darius
is my second favorite).
Evelyn Duncan
brandykitt@aol.com
It's my pets' world; I just open cans.
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 26 Mar 2004 20:05:42 EST
From: Highlandmg@aol.com
Subject: Re: Seasons Three dvds: Obsession
Hi I am reading and enjoying them Just can't get myself motivated yet I am
trying yo clean house and limited my self on the internet I I respond I will
then have to watch the episode and no cleaning will get done.
Mary
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 26 Mar 2004 16:45:42 -1000
From: MacWestie <mac.westie@verizon.net>
Subject: Re: Seasons Three dvds: Obsession
> I get the feeling no one is reading these since they aren't sparking any
> discussion
Personally, I prefer to watch all the DVDs myself first, so that the extra
material is fresh to me rather than oddly familiar due to having read
someone else's rehash of it all. I just haven't had the time to watch them
yet. Maybe this summer when there's absolutely nothing decent on TV.
I'd imagine your accounts are invaluable to people who don't have & aren't
planning to get the DVD sets.
Nina (my Farscape sets are calling more loudly than the HL's anyway, &
Firefly plus Sports Night are on the way...)
mac.westie@verizon.net
------------------------------
End of HIGHLA-L Digest - 25 Mar 2004 to 26 Mar 2004 (#2004-57)
**************************************************************