HIGHLA-L Digest - 11 Jul 2003 (#2003-151)
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Fri, 11 Jul 2003 22:00:01 -0400
There are 2 messages totalling 142 lines in this issue.
Topics of the day:
1. Philosophy! (And square dancing!)
2. Fanfic & Morals
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Date: Fri, 11 Jul 2003 14:49:27 -1000
From: MacWestie <mac.westie@verizon.net>
Subject: Re: Philosophy! (And square dancing!)
me before--
> > Morally, they are making money selling stuff that belongs
> > to the people responsible for Highlander, a TV show we--all of us here
on
> > this list, today--all love. That's immoral--here, today.
Rottie--
> By what standard, since you have rejected any common moral principles?
I rejected your innate, constant, single, divine, & puzzlingly shrouded
moral principle. However, people can & do frequently band together & agree
on some basics, if only to make life less nasty, brutish & short. Of
course, there are always some bad apples in the bunch, who _say_ they
respect the property rights of others but whose actions indicate otherwise.
And, let me remind you that you're quite a bit behind on answering the
questions I have put to you. Answer, don't answer--whatever. But I'm
tired of the one-sided conversation that "debate" w/ you seems to entail.
Rob--
>>>Nina, over and over, in much detail, has exhaustively described facets of
her moral system as they apply to subjects such as fanfic. >>>
Thank you, I do try to please.
Nina
mac.westie@verizon.net
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Date: Fri, 11 Jul 2003 15:38:18 -1000
From: MacWestie <mac.westie@verizon.net>
Subject: Re: Fanfic & Morals
Carmel--
> There is no law anywhere in the world that says "DPP OWNS the HL
> universe." There are laws that, in various places, including the US,
> provide for the ownership of intellectual property. On the face of it,
> these laws would probably give DPP substantial ownership of intellectual
> property relating to the Highlander universe. But, whether or not 'all'
of
> the Highlander universe/characters and its 'canon' are owned by DPP is a
> matter of fact which can only be determined by a court examining the
> evidence relating to those facts.
I see. The courts again.... You know, I'm all for things being clearly
settled, in the courts or otherwise. But this is ... strange. On the one
hand, fans (& even journalists) don't want to force TPTB to do anything
official about fanfic, so they keep a dirty little secret (on the
_Internet_, but that's a different contradiction). One the other hand, they
cite a lack of court cases re: fanfic in particular (as opposed to all the
other copyright violations & intellectual property cases) as reason to do
what they like. That leaves no hands left for eating the cake.
Carmel, exactly which of the HL characters do you think a court might find
that DPP does NOT own? Richie? Amanda? Joe? Horton? And the reasoning
would be??? Which HL canon really doesn't belong to DPP? And how can that
be, if it IS HL canon? Let's see, maybe Charlie DeSalvo is annoying & so
not HL-enough to really belong to DPP, or maybe they botched Holy Ground in
Endgame so badly it doesn't belong to DPP any more.... That doesn't make
sense. More importantly, what does it matter? Fanfic, by its nature,
uses/abuses the parent fictional universe rather broadly. I can't imagine a
HL fanfic story that uses only an ancillary character from the series or
films AND isn't filled w/ HL canon at least running in the background--there
are Immortals among us, who feel the Buzz, carry swords, & take heads for
Quickenings, etc. W/o that stuff, it isn't HL fanfic in the 1st place. And
that stuff belongs to DPP. Who could say otherwise?
me before--
> Carmel, you recently admitted w/ gleeful abandon that you do in fact
> breach DPP's copyrights w/ your fanfic. Have you changed your mind? Did
> you suffer a head injury? Or are you trying to back out of a dark & scary
> corner?
Carmel--
> No - unlike some, I have no trouble admitting that I might have
> been wrong. Intellectual property and copyright are not synonymous terms.
> IP is 'much' wider than copyright. I have certainly used DPP's
intellectual
> property. However, after doing some further research, and discussing this
> with some IP lawyers
_Now_ I see! Carmel has consulted lawyers. Over her fanfic. Oh. My.
God.
Wait--you don't just mean reading that IP article at the rather dodgy
website you posted here yesterday, do you? Helpful hint--you _don't_ want
to get legal advice on the Internet, any more than you want to get medical
advice on the net. (Bad medical advice, you just die; bad legal advice, &
you'll wish you were dead.)
>>>, I realised that my statement "I already admitted that
> I breach DPP's copyright?" was in fact too bald and that this entire area
is
> far less black and white than I had thought.>>>
Poor Uncle Bill. Are your lawyers talking to his lawyers yet? That's when
it gets serious. And pricey. Keep us posted.
Carmel--
> The mere fact of a character appearing in a movie does not in itself give
> any right to IP in that character.
Really? Legal basis for that contention, please? And, again, which HL
character are you planning to steal? I can guess, of course, but I wouldn't
want to put words in your mouth.
You certainly have been busy the past couple days, consulting lawyers,
changing your mind about so many things. Oh. You aren't saying any more
that if DPP ever ask you to stop distributing your fanfic, you will
instantly do so. You said that over & over in a few posts. Like this--
" ... it is obvious that Davis-Panzer own the characters. I certainly
acknowledge that and that fanfiction is unauthorised use of someone else's
property. If asked to cease and desist by the owners, I would cease and
desist because I acknowledge that the owners have that right."
You now say the HL characters aren't all theirs, nor is HL canon. Would you
still take your fanfic off your website, if DPP asked, or has that changed
too? Should I ask you that daily, to keep up to date?
Nina (Are you _sure you didn't hit your head? Maybe you fell & don't
remember it.)
mac.westie@verizon.net
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End of HIGHLA-L Digest - 11 Jul 2003 (#2003-151)
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