There are 11 messages totalling 463 lines in this issue. Topics of the day: 1. The Whole Nine Yards (5) 2. Highlander animated movie trailer up (4) 3. the stuff we were talking about...yeah, kinda OT (2) ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Thu, 9 Jun 2005 20:19:39 -0700 From: Sherri C <sherric@empnet.com> Subject: Re: The Whole Nine Yards None of the answer pages seem to have an answer. I have seen another explanation, but I'm drawing a blank - I think it was in one of my nautical dictionary's tho... (I just found one in a 2004 dictionary - using the ship yards as the explanation) I'm thinking the phrase has little to no relation to Scotland.... I called a friend who does costuming and she said that a great kilt takes less than nine yards... (she did say it had to wrap the person 3 times... ) http://www.yaelf.com/index.shtml (search for the phrase on this one) http://www.straightdope.com/classics/a2_252.html http://www.worldwidewords.org/articles/nineyards.htm http://www.phrases.org.uk/meanings/411150.html At 08:42 AM 6/9/2005, you wrote: >::: cantering in on three-legged "What does 'The Whole Nine Yards' >mean?" ::: >Is there anything definitive about the Scottish origins of the phrase? > >ZK (so, how's everybody? The list seems active lately!) Sherri sherric@empnet.com "...freedom is not free, for in times of darkness, in the fires of war, freedom is forged of iron, iron oft quenched by the blood of the innocent, a terrible price to pay. Yet to let evil rule is even more costly." (from "Into the Fire" by Dennis L McKiernan) ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 9 Jun 2005 22:31:46 -0700 From: Cindy <cierdwyna@yahoo.com> Subject: Re: The Whole Nine Yards --- Sherri C <sherric@empnet.com> wrote: > > I'm thinking the phrase has little to no relation to > Scotland.... I called > a friend who does > costuming and she said that a great kilt takes less > than nine yards... (she > did say it > had to wrap the person 3 times... ) > I work at the Bristol Renaissance Faire here in Wisconsin (in Thistlecroft - the Celtic "encampment"). We have a kilt folding demonstration every day and yes, we do use a length of cloth that is close to nine yards long. We start with a a flat bit equal to the distance between the man's elbow and middle finger and from there we start the pleats. Each pleat is about a hand span apart and they continue until there is another flat bit about the same length as the first. A wide belt is then slid underneath the cloth about half-way width-wise...the man then lays onto the fabric, the "flaps" are wrapped around him, the belt cinched tight and he then stands. [ [ [ [ [ [ [ [ [ [ [ [ [ [ [ [ [ [ [ [ [ [ [ [ [ [ [ [ [ [ [ [ [ [ [ [ _____[ [ [ [ [ [ [ [ [ [ [ [_____ _____[ [ [ [ [ [ [ [ [ [ [ [_____ [ [ [ [ [ [ [ [ [ [ [ [ [ [ [ [ [ [ [ [ [ [ [ [ [ [ [ [ [ [ [ [ [ [ [ [ [ [ [ [ [ [ [ [ [ [ [ [ The overhang of fabric is then (usually) brought up over either one or both shoulders and fastened with a "brat" -- one of those big celtic pin-things. It is especially fun at the end of the demonstration to stretch out the fabric and let the audience see exactly how much fabric the man was wearing. They are truly amazed. And our demonstrator makes the point that the length of fabric would go along with the amount of wealth the kilt-wearer would have - the more wealth, the more he could spend on excess fabric. Raven __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 10 Jun 2005 00:45:47 -0500 From: Ginny <RED57@aol.com> Subject: Re: The Whole Nine Yards Cindy wrote on 6/10/2005, 12:31 AM: <Snip excess fabric of discussion here...> > I work at the Bristol Renaissance Faire here in > Wisconsin (in Thistlecroft - the Celtic "encampment"). > > We have a kilt folding demonstration every day and > yes, we do use a length of cloth that is close to nine > yards long. We start with a a flat bit equal to the > distance between the man's elbow and middle finger and > from there we start the pleats. Each pleat is about a > hand span apart and they continue until there is > another flat bit about the same length as the first. > > A wide belt is then slid underneath the cloth about > half-way width-wise...the man then lays onto the > fabric, the "flaps" are wrapped around him, the belt > cinched tight and he then stands. > <snip> > I think I've seen that demo, or a similar one at some SCA event. We attend Bristol at least once a summer, must remember to try to look you up. In an odd way, that Faire led to a whole 'nother online persona for me, which is too off topic even for THIS crew. -- Ginny RED57@aol.com Fresh out of .sig lines ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 9 Jun 2005 23:34:04 -0700 From: FKMel <sgt_buck_frobisher@yahoo.com> Subject: Highlander animated movie trailer up Has anyone seen the trailer for the upcoming animated/anime Highlander movie? It's on the offical site, I think there's a link somewhere on the frontpage. My first reaction was "What, ANOTHER MacLeod? How many can they come up with?" This time it's Colin. And it's set way in the future. I'm trying to reserve judgement until I see it but I just have a sinking feeling they're going to diverge from canon again like with the animated series. Mel __________________________________ Discover Yahoo! Stay in touch with email, IM, photo sharing and more. Check it out! http://discover.yahoo.com/stayintouch.html ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 10 Jun 2005 07:33:14 -0500 From: Debra Douglass <ddoug@catrio.org> Subject: Re: the stuff we were talking about...yeah, kinda OT On 6/8/2005, on HIGHLA-L@lists.psu.edu, Wendy wrote: >> I asked: >> > >(Anyone heard from Fearless Leader Debbie recently?) >> >> Marina says: >> > Yes. On another list. More than that I'm not authorized to tell you. >> >> Marina? >> >> Bite me! Marina and I are both on a small private social list. I'm around. I just bought a house (my first) and things are a bit hectic. Having the term 'Fearless Leader' applied to me brings up images of Robert De Niro in his role as 'Fearless Leader' in the live-action movie "The Adventures of Rocky & Bullwinkle (2000). <chuckle> -- .------------------------------------------------------------------. |Debra Douglass ddoug@catrio.org http://www.catrio.org| `------------------------------------------------------------------' ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 10 Jun 2005 10:30:49 -0400 From: Wendy <Immortals_Incorporated@cox.net> Subject: Re: the stuff we were talking about...yeah, kinda OT I asked: > >>(Anyone heard from Fearless Leader Debbie recently?) And The Goddess appears! > I'm around. I just bought a house (my first) and things are a bit > hectic. She's alive! She's alive!! Congrats on the house. Commiseration on the hectic-ness. Wendy (Now about those early HIGHLA archives....)(Any hope of gaining access?)( Or copies.)(Yes, yes, copies.)(Please.....)(Please.......)(I'll be Sweetness & Light if you want ....) Immortals Inc. immortals_incorporated@cox.net "Weasels for Eternity" ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 10 Jun 2005 10:30:49 -0400 From: Wendy <Immortals_Incorporated@cox.net> Subject: Re: Highlander animated movie trailer up Mel asks: > Has anyone seen the trailer for the upcoming > animated/anime Highlander movie? It's on the offical > site, I think there's a link somewhere on the > frontpage. Oh. My. God. It's ::::::::::::::shudder:::::::::::::::: indescribable. > My first reaction was "What, ANOTHER MacLeod? How many > can they come up with?" This time it's Colin. And it's > set way in the future. >From the Official Site: <<<<<In revenge, patience is a virtue. And after a few thousand years, Colin MacLeod doesn't give a damn about virtue...>>>>> As Mel notes, another MacLeod? Is it something in the water in the Highlander that encourages "fairies" to drop off Immortals there? And only in the Clan MacLeod territory? Doesn't give a damn about virtue? OK. Maybe they *are* making a series about Methos after all . <<<<< For the first time, the MacLeod katana blade will find itself in the hands of a Japanese master.>>>>>> Excuse me? Didn't the MacLeod katana start out in the hands of a Japanese master? And ... just how does someone named Colin MacLeod qualify as a "Japanese" master? Oh yeah, this is so far in the future that nationalities and "races" are obsolete - except that everyone is Japanese <eg> > I'm trying to reserve judgement until I see it but I > just have a sinking feeling they're going to diverge > from canon again like with the animated series. Ya think? And in case you missed it ... Immortals fight robots and fly. How did it come down to this? Wendy(We all knew that sooner or later, Immortals would fly.) Immortals Inc. immortals_incorporated@cox.net "Weasels for Eternity" ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 10 Jun 2005 10:53:11 EDT From: Brian Smith <ShadowPK@aol.com> Subject: Re: Highlander animated movie trailer up Looks cool, basically like Ninja Scroll set in the future. I wish they'd call it something else besides Highlander, though. Davis and Panzer are licensing out the name now, groan. Bri ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 10 Jun 2005 11:07:48 -0400 From: siona <siona@siona.org> Subject: Re: The Whole Nine Yards At 11:42 AM 06/09/2005, someone wrote: >::: cantering in on three-legged "What does 'The Whole Nine Yards' >mean?" ::: This was from an old phrase discussion list I used to belong to: "The whole nine yards -------------------- There are many possible explanations, yet no consensus on the true origin of this phrase. It has been attributed to World War II fighter planes. Nine yards was the exact length of a belt of 50-caliber ammunition for the Corsair fighter. If a target was shot at with the entire band, it was said to have been given "the whole nine yards". Alternatively, a tailor making a high quality suit uses more fabric. The best suits are made from nine yards of fabric. This may seem like a lot but a proper suit does indeed take nine yards of fabric. This is because a good suit has all the fabric cut in the same direction with the warp, or long strands of thread, parallel with the vertical line of the suit. This causes a great amount of waste in suit making, but if you want to go "the whole nine yards", you must pay for such waste. The phrase certainly applies to the preparation of a full set of men's clothing. To fully understand this, you need to know what constituted a "full set of clothing" for a man in the 17th and 18th Centuries where the phrase can first be traced. The items of clothing for a man were a Westkit (waistcoat), Breeches (pants) and a Great Coat. The material requirements to tailor these garments (even with a minimal amount of waste) is nine yards of material (45" width in the 1800s). A Westkit requires 1.5 yards, Breeches requires 2.0 yards and the Coat requires 5.5 yards for a total of 9.0 yards. These amounts can be confirmed with many museums, historians or period re-enactors. The reason that the Coats required so much material was that they went from shoulder down to the back of the knee in length, and then the lower portion of the coat was full and pleated, almost like a dress. The pattern for the coat below the waist is almost a full circle Yet another alternative explanation: "The whole nine yards" refers to the amount of fabric in a proper Scottish kilt. The kilt, much like the suit, must have the fabric oriented in the proper direction. The plaid or Tartan as it's called has to be matched perfectly, so it doesn't look crooked. This alone takes a huge amount of cloth. The nine yards is the area of the fabric the tailor starts with, much of which ends up as scrap. Additionally, a kilt does not simply wrap around the waist. It also includes fabric that is worn up and over the shoulder. Old style kilts were used as blankets, toweling, or whatever else came to mind. There is a tale about one man using his to escape from a window of his lady-friend's bedchamber when her husband came home early. Needless to say he had to streak across to his horse and home. Unfortunately, this turned out rather like those "Dumb Crook" cases you hear about now. Because each kilt was a specific Tartan, the husband had no trouble at all identifying the culprit. One more possible origin: Many old sailing ships had three masts, the fore, main, and mizzen. Each mast held three square sails. The horizontal stays that support the square sails are called yards. Hence the ships had nine yards. Depending on the sailing conditions, more or less sails would be raised. In the best conditions peak speed could be achieved by raising all nine main sails, the whole nine yards." ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 10 Jun 2005 14:25:33 -0400 From: Jo MacArthur <macarthur@erinet.com> Subject: Re: The Whole Nine Yards But that is about how long the fabric was. It was pleated on the ground _at one end_ on top of the belt. Then the Scot lay upon the pleatings and wrapped the belt around him, creating the skirt of the kilt. BUT the rest was draped and then thrown over the shoulder and still may have reached to his knees. That was the "plaid" part, and was often used as a blanket, or head covering (in the rain) or padding when sleeping on the ground. The "great kilt" was pretty much a product of the 17th century and back. Newer kilts were smaller, though they may have had a separate "plaid." I think I got that all right. ~ Jo At 09:19 PM 6/9/2005 -0400, you wrote: >At 08:57 PM 6/9/2005, Ginny wrote: >>But the "great kilt" refernce is beguiling too. It could also refer to >>the amount of cloth to make a decent sari drape properly. > >Don't know about that one, Ginny. Nine yards is an *awful* lot of >material. The person would have to be big as a house to need that much. > >-- Sandy ~~ ~ Jo MacArthur <macarthur@erinet.com> http://members.aol.com/MacGreggor/homepg1.htm http://my.erinet.com/~macarthur/ ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 10 Jun 2005 10:04:15 -1000 From: MacWestie <mac.westie@verizon.net> Subject: Re: Highlander animated movie trailer up Um. The pigeons swarming at the start of the clip--are THEY immortal? Because THAT would be different..... >>>> Colin MacLeod doesn't give a damn about virtue...>>>>> And neither do DPP. Talk about selling out to the highest bidder. Actually, I imagine they sell out to ANY bidders, at this point. Nina (LOVED the pithy dialogue, though) mac.westie@verizon.net ------------------------------ End of HIGHLA-L Digest - 9 Jun 2005 to 10 Jun 2005 (#2005-65) *************************************************************