HIGHLA-L Digest - 12 Aug 2004 to 13 Aug 2004 (#2004-147)
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Fri, 13 Aug 2004 22:00:06 -0400
There are 3 messages totalling 395 lines in this issue.
Topics of the day:
1. Season Four dvd Commentary: Through a Glass, Darkly
2. Q-Chips (was: The Immortal Cimoli)
3. HL Moment
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Date: Thu, 12 Aug 2004 22:08:19 -0400
From: kageorge <kageorge@erols.com>
Subject: Season Four dvd Commentary: Through a Glass, Darkly
Html version w/screen captures can be found at:
http://www.wordsmiths.net/MacGeorge/episodes/Season4/GlassDarkly.htm
COMMENTARY: David A. says that it would have been okay if some executive
had said to him, “Are you insane?” This episode was a clear ripoff of
“Roshomon” (for those who don’t know, “Roshomon” is a classic Kurosawa
film which shows a series of events from each person’s point of view,
with each of them remembering it differently) and was hit and miss.
David says he’s no Kurosawa and while the director was good, this was an
episode that didn’t realize its potential, and that they “outsmarted
ourselves a little bit” by trying to do something that was really
different. He says it worked “pretty well”, but the villain wasn’t
really the villain, it was a psychological drama, and he wasn’t sure it
fit into what Highlander was at its core. It was intellectually
interesting but as an episode, it “didn’t pace or pop like I wished it
would.” He also says that he was getting notes from lots of different
producers in different countries, and there was some concern that by
showing the backstory from different perspectives, they would lose the
audience. In retrospect, he says he would have worked to both write it
more clearly and work with the director to make the story lines a little
clearer.
Gillian also notes that this is a “Roshomon” story. She says it also
throws doubt on every flashback in the series, so you have to wonder
whether we might be seeing events through “Duncan-colored glasses.” She
says the episode came out a lot darker than they originally envisioned
it. They liked the idea of an immortal who had gone through a terrible
trauma and was in denial about his own immortality. It made a nice
opening to explore the idea of whether or not you would want to be
immortal, and whether would there be a temptation to not want to
remember all the terrible tragedies that happened.
She also says that one of the reasons they did the flashbacks they way
they did was, in theory, to save a little bit of money, if the
flashbacks were filmed twice slightly differently, you could have one
set, one location, one camera set up, and get twice as much footage. She
says that the plot with Cochrane and his student got too convoluted and
too complicated, so that some of the issues they really wished they
could have been explored “weren’t as fully realized as they could have
been.”
Bill P. asks the question, “Can an Immortal get therapy?” He posits that
they might, but it takes so long for even mortals to peel away all the
layers that cover what we are, it probably takes longer, or an Immortal
therapist to do that, and that’s sort of what MacLeod is doing in this
episode.
OUTTAKES: We see the opening scene when Peter steps out into the (very)
foggy snowy morning. There is one initial miscue that causes some
laughter, and then PW and AP go through the scene very nicely until they
feel the “buzz” of another Immortal. Duncan goes off down the path and
after he explains he’s “Just looking”, Methos chases after him, calling
“Duncan!” Then he catches up to him, saying, “It’s just a couple of guys
with smoke machines!” then there’s a bloodcurdling yell that sounds like
they are attacking the guys with the smoke machines, but we can’t see
what’s going on.
We see a couple of deleted scenes between Methos and Duncan, the first
on the stairs when Duncan goes to find the mystery Immortal, and Methos
tells Duncan he’s going to wait outside. Then, after Duncan first meets
Cochrane, Methos joins him outside and tells him that it all may have
been an act by Cochrane to throw Duncan off his guard, and that Duncan
ought to be more paranoid.
“You don’t trust anybody, do you?” Duncan demands.
“No. I find it safer to make a habit of it,” Methos answers, then after
a small pause, adds, “Present company excepted.”
Then we see F. Braun McAsh’s stint as the innkeeper in the flashback. In
the unaired scene, Cochrane tells the innkeeper that he and Duncan are
to meet a gentleman there named, “Charles.”
“Some gentleman!” the innkeeper says derisively, and Cochrane puts a
dagger to his throat.
“That’s right, he is a gentleman!” Cochran insists, and tells the
innkeeper to say it again with greater respect. Duncan advises the
innkeeper to do as Cochrane demands, so he does.
NOTE: The Watcher who witnessed the events wrote: “This was the great
hope of the Scots? This drunken dissipate? My God, no wonder the Scots
lost. I’d sooner entrust fighting men to yon innkeeper than that
dissolute simpleton who can barely remember his own name. Luckily,
MacLeod’s wits are not nearly as clouded as this man he once called
Prince, and he is putting any thoughts of sounding the call to fight at
his side well away.”
THE EPISODE: This episode takes place shortly after Alexa’s death, and
Duncan and Methos are visiting her gravesite. As they leave they feel
another Immortal and MacLeod goes looking, and in some underground vault
sees a moving figure and draws his sword. The man screams at him to stay
away and Duncan (in a flashback) recognizes the man as a friend from his
past, Warren Cochran, a fellow Scot who had fought with him against the
English in the rebellion in the mid-1700's. The flashbacks show a strong
bond of warrior-friendship between Duncan and Warren. Warren seems more
enamored of the fighting than Duncan, who is weary of it, and who is
doubtful of “Prince Charlie’s” tactics, while Warren refuses to question
the wisdom of his actions.
Duncan is stopped by the police (and grimly he instructs Methos,
“Leave,” as they arrive, and Methos slips away). [NOTE: Why didn’t they
have Duncan hand Methos his katana, since he knew he was getting picked
up by the police? And since the police were questioning him about
threatening a man with a sword, wouldn’t they have found it?]
Turns out Warren doesn’t remember who he is, and the police are
convinced he’s “confused”. Duncan speaks to him. Cochrane initially
denies knowing him, and is clearly in pain, and we get another flashback
to where Cochrane was killed in front of the rest of the men, but
because of that, can no longer fight with them. [NOTE: Cochrane only
revives when Duncan pulls the dagger out of his chest.] Duncan tells
Warren that he’ll fight with Prince Charlie to the death, but they have
been outmaneuvered and are outnumbered. “He may be the one true prince
and the man that Scotland needs to believe in, but he’s not the man to
lead us in war.”
Warren hits him and calls him a disloyal bastard, but Duncan threatens
him with the dagger, saying that no man can call him that. Warren
apologies, acknowledges that they are the best of friends, and asks for
Duncan’s forgiveness. Duncan looks mollified, but then backhands him
hard and says, “This time.”
When Warren realizes that his public death means he cannot fight in the
final battle (Culloden), he is heartbroken, and the two men embrace as
brothers and fellow warriors. “Bring us glory on Culloden Moor,
MacLeod!” Warren calls as Duncan walks away (NOTE: Actually, it was
called Drumossie Moor, and was an ignominious defeat for the Scots.).
“You will not lose! You Cannot Lose!”
In the present, Duncan gently reminds Warren of some of the good times
they had in Scotland, and he responds, acknowledging a few of those
memories, but when Duncan tries to get Warren to remember more recent
events, all he gets are snatches of conversations and scenes between
Warren and Andrew, his student. We later learn that Warren had taken his
student to an inn in Normandie, tried to enlist him in his ongoing
obsession with freeing Scotland from English rule, and Andrew defied him
and insulted him. In a moment of blind rage, Warren takes his student’s
head, but the horror of what he had done overwhelmed him and he now
refuses to what he had done or even his own Immortality.
Initially, however, it is not at all clear to Duncan what was going on,
and Warren’s mortal wife arrives just as he is about to question him
more closely, so the interview is cut short.
Duncan finds Methos in the basement of Shakespeare and Company (Methos:
“I’m down here in the cellar, there’s a fake wall on your right!”) where
he is hanging up pages of an ancient cookbook that had gotten wet in the
flood. Duncan tells Methos about Cochrane, and he agrees that since the
problem can’t be physical, he must have had “one hell of an emotional
shock.” It takes some persuasion, but Methos reluctantly agrees to get
Watcher information on Cochrane.
Methos suggests that maybe it’s a blessing to start fresh, with no memories.
“Until someone comes and takes your head,” Duncan responds grimly.
Cochrane, in the meantime, is plagued with strange vision/memories and
his wife is no help, since she doesn’t know about his past.
Duncan meets Methos in a snowy street, and Methos advises Duncan to walk
away from his friend. Duncan notes that not knowing who and what he is
makes Cochrane a danger to all of them. “So lure him outside and take
his head,” Methos says grimly. “Problem solved.”
“You know, I never know when you’re kidding,” Duncan protests.
“Part of my charm.”
Methos gives shows Duncan the file for Cochrane, and when Methos denies
having access to more information, Duncan starts dropping the pages in
the snow. Methos yells and grabs at them, agreeing under duress to find
out more. “Boy Scout,” Methos mutters under his breath in irritation.
Duncan tells Warren about his immortality, but Warren doesn’t believe
him and they argue until finally Duncan deliberately stabs Warren
through the hand, showing him how he heals. A flashback takes us to
France in 1776. Warren has a wife and an adopted son. He is there to
meet with Prince Charlie, still convinced that, with the Prince as a
leader, he could raise 10,000 men to march to war again against England.
Duncan meets him there, and he’s angry they are traveling so openly and
feels Warren has put his family in danger, and they should be sent back
to England.
They are attacked, and while Duncan suggests they try to slip away,
Warren refuses to miss the opportunity to meet Charlie, and tries to
take them on. Duncan goes after Warren and they kill the two Englishmen
(quite brutally and casually), but return to find Warren’s wife and
adopted son are dead.
In the present, Warren can’t deal with much more, but Duncan reminds him
of their last meeting with Prince Charlie, in Normandy in 1776. We see
two different versions of the same scene of Cochrane and MacLeod meeting
Prince Charlie at an inn, to find out if he would come back to England
to lead an army again to free Scotland. Warren remembers Charlie as a
regal prince, who would have supported their cause but for MacLeod’s
doubts. MacLeod remembers Charlie as a stumbling, money-hungry drunk,
unable to lead anyone anywhere.
Duncan goes to Methos, who is still rummaging around in the basement of
the bookstore. Duncan seems really distressed, and Methos notes that he
is aware that Duncan and Warren have “quite some history.” Duncan tells
Methos that Cochrane had built up a legend about Prince Charlie in his
mind, and couldn’t stand to see it destroyed, and that his memories were
all distorted.
Methos tells Duncan that maybe Cochrane can’t fact the truth, that
Cochrane went to Normandy with his student, Andrew Donelly, and while
the Watcher didn’t witness what happened, Donelly has now disappeared.
Sure enough, when MacLeod goes to Warren’s house, he finds Warren gone,
and while Duncan is there the police notify the wife that Donelly was
found in an abandoned inn in Normandy with his head cut off.
Duncan goes to the inn, now long abandoned, which is the same place as
their fateful meeting with Prince Charlie. He finds Warren there and
asks what happened, but Warren still doesn’t remember. Duncan pressures
him, and we get flashes of Andrew throwing insults at Cochrane, saying
that his life had been for nothing, and that Prince Charlie was a bum.
Finally, Warren remembers taking Andrew’s head and we see his memory of
taking the quickening, trying to fight it, not wanting it, screaming in
denial and pain.
But Duncan is almost equally horrified that Warren would kill his own
student.
“I know what you’re thinking,” Warren moans, “That only a monster could
do such a thing!” Then he asks Duncan to kill him. “What thing on earth
could be more evil than me!” he cries, but Duncan backs away. “You
should have left it alone, MacLeod. You should have let me forget!”
Duncan says he doesn’t want to fight him, but Cochrane comes at him
anyway. It is an interesting battle, as both men are carrying
flashlights in one hand and a sword in the other, so we see shadows and
movement more than the actual fight. Ultimately, Duncan takes him down,
and Cochrane asks him to end it, and pleads with him, saying he can’t
live with what he’d done.
“You’re going to have to,” Duncan insists grimly, and walks away. As he
does, Warren looks up, and imagines he sees Prince Charlie descending
the stairs in all his majesty and glory.
In the tag, Duncan is bemoaning what has happened to Cochrane, and
Duncan still can hardly believe Warren killed his own student, and
speculates that maybe he should have left Warren alone, left him not
knowing what a terrible thing he had done.
“We all have things in our past we wish we hadn’t done,” Methos
responds. “I know I do.”
Duncan asks Methos if he had the chance to forget everything and live
life for again, if he’d do it.
“No, I wouldn’t,” Methos answers gently. “Who’d remember Alexa then?”
MY COMMENTS: I was quite surprised at all the apologias from Abramowitz.
While far from perfect, I thought this episode was very interesting and
emotionally intense. It raised as many questions as it answered, but
that’s not untypical, and I had no trouble following the storyline,
which Abramowitz seemed concerned about.
The flashbacks were wonderful, rich in visual and emotional power. The
battles were full of color and action, and both Cochrane and MacLeod
looked both very good and very grubby and tired as great warriors
prepared to do whatever it took to win Scotland’s freedom. Their intense
bond was well established, as was Cochrane’s obsessive nature, which was
seen from the very beginning, but only got worse as time went on.
I loved all the scenes between Duncan and Methos. There was a bond
there, too, but more subtle, based on a cautiously developing mutual
respect and trust. Duncan both admires and is a bit mystified by Methos,
and Methos clearly has growing respect for Duncan. While both are a bit
wary, my sense was that each was very glad to have an Immortal friend
they could trust and confide in, in ways that no mortal could ever
understand.
It is interesting to compare Warren and Duncan versus Methos and Duncan.
In some ways, their friendships are a measure of how Duncan has changed
over the centuries. The bond of brother/warriors bound by a country and
a cause, in addition to their shared Immortality, was very strong. How
rare and welcome it must be to find some respite from the sense of
isolation of who and what they were with someone who also shared the
same language and culture and history. In the present, Duncan still
wants (and probably feels the need for) Immortal friends, but is more
interested in someone of subtle intellectual gifts. And if anyone ever
felt isolated, it must be Methos. How very dangerous and how obviously
tempting it is for him to hang around Duncan, a man who cares so deeply
and is so involved in the lives of those around him. Fascinating
relationship.
Frankly, I was amazed that none of the commentators talked about the
dramatic foreshadowing of Duncan’s killing of Richie, even though that
event probably hadn’t been contemplated at the time the story was
originally written. The unbridled horror Duncan felt at the very thought
of a teacher killing a student was palpable, as was Warren’s
overwhelming regret and remorse. It seemed as though Duncan’s “allowing”
Warren to live was at least as much because he felt that Warren should
have to live with what he had done as a punishment for his act, as it
was because he didn’t want to kill a friend.
We certainly see the seeds of Duncan’s reaction to Richie’s death in
what happens to Warren, and one can only wonder if Warren, who has
always been prone to self-delusion, will have the strength to overcome
his despair, or whether he will simply seek someone else out to end his
misery. (Note: The chronicles on the dvd imply that Warren is slowly
healing, but that the outcome is uncertain.)
MacGeorge
From the Methos Chronicle Entry:
Lenticulam de Castaneis
Marcus Vavius Apicius Vii 2
Take a new sauce pan, place therein the chestnuts carefully cleaned. Add
water and a little soda and place on the fire to be cooked. This done,
crush in the mortar pepper, cumin, coriander seed, mint, rue, laser
root, and fleabane moistened with vinegar, honey and broth; add vinegar
to taste and pour this over the cooked chestnuts, add oil and allow to
boil. When done, crush it in the mortar. Taste to see if something is
missing and if so, put it in, and at last add green oil. Cook the
lentils, skim them, add leeks, green coriander; crush coriander seed,
flea-bane, laser root, mint seed and rue seed moistened with vinegar;
add honey, broth, vinegar, then oil, stirring until it is done. Add
chestnuts, sprinkle with pepper and serve.
[Note: I double checked and transcribed it correctly, but this recipe
makes no sense to me.]
All episode commentaries at:
http://www.wordsmiths.net/MacGeorge/episodes/indexframeset.htm
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 12 Aug 2004 23:25:24 EDT
From: Degruy@aol.com
Subject: Re: Q-Chips (was: The Immortal Cimoli)
And there is my newly-created Q-Chip Theory.
Let the cards fall where they may.>>
Well thought out and nicely told.
While I admire it, I think you may have way too much free time.
But since I read all the way through it, I guess I am with you there.
Edward deGruy
Student of Humanity
@}----------
"Rock Against Drugs? Who was high when they came up with that one? That is
like saying Christians Against Christ." - Sam Kineson
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 12 Aug 2004 23:00:05 -0700
From: FKMel <sgt_buck_frobisher@yahoo.com>
Subject: HL Moment
I don't know if anyone gets History Channel
International but tonight there was a two hour episode
of "Almanac" about the battles between the Scottish
clans and the stuff with the English that we saw in
FUOT and TaGD. There was a Donald MacLeod that spoke,
and a Duncan but I think it was MacDonald or MacGregor
not MacLeod. And they showed a map with the location
of Glen Finnan.
Mel
=====
The trouble with immortality is that it tends to go on forever-Herb Cain
NickNatpacker,Knightie,Knight of the Cross;Duncan, Tessa and Joe flags-waver, Dueser,Fan of Buffy and Angel's true and undying love for one another
http//:groups.yahoo.com/group/thavisionthing-That Vison thing Angel rpg
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End of HIGHLA-L Digest - 12 Aug 2004 to 13 Aug 2004 (#2004-147)
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